Infant Feeding - Massive Straw Men with Ambivalence & Gaslights

[Ineedacupofteadesperately]

I've felt for a long time that something is 'off' about the discussion in the media around infant feeding. Apart from anything else the fact that the alternative to a mother breastfeeding is automatically accepted to be formula rather than donor milk, and no-one seems to ever question this. Why? Throughout history the alternative was wet nursing, not feeding cows milk. We have successful blood donation - why have all the milk banks been destroyed, we used to have more? Why is no money put into this in a supposedly rich country?

Anyway, someone sent me this link and I found it thought provoking. I think the comparison of adult feeding habits very pertinent at the end, but I do think part of the problem is that there are vested interests very focused on this remaining seen as individual choice rather than individual decisions in a very stacked environment without proper investment to support women, which often means there is no real choice at all.

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2019/02/infant-feeding-massive-straw-men-with.html

Did you not get made to feel guilty for lazing around? But yes I had many lazy days on the couch in those early couple of months. I thought I was doing fantastic if I managed to make & eat lunch. Does pot noodle count as a hot meal? Lol

I know mums who'd sucessfully BF DC1 but couldn't cope with the demands of BF DC2 and toddler DC1 wanting attention too.
That's where other relations need to step up and support the new mum.

That's what in some ways puts me off having a second child. I hate the idea of BF one but not the other but I also hate the idea of having to neglect DD because I have a baby attached to me 24/7.

I think OPs comparison to blood donation is apt but not in the way she meant. In fact the medical community would far prefer to use synthetic blood if it existed, the problem is it doesn't. Collecting blood is a lot of expense and effort, it goes off quickly and in rare cases can spread disease.

If someone made powdered blood that was shelf stable like formula it would completely revolutionise things.

On a population level, breast is best. And so it’s right that governments support Bf. But what’s best for the individual can vary, and can be breast, formula, donor or a mix.Where almost all campaigns go wrong I think is missing this point.

Personally I think most campaigns acknowledge this and certainly every single lactation consultant I've come across (few and far between as they've been) has certainly understood and promoted the best choice in individual circumstances. The narrative in the media, however, is that there is some sort of war between breast vs bottle (you know, rather than reflecting that women are not supported) - it's a straw man and what the original article was talking about. And I can't help but feel that the formula companies both love and encourage this. If there was better support for bf their profits would fall so it's logical.

The trouble is most campaigns completely ignore the hard work side of BFing and the rest / support required. They seem to make it out that it will just happen.
They don't even get out that multiple layers makes it easier to be discreet.

Did you not get made to feel guilty for lazing around?

We nearly didn't have a second. Dh wasn't so great first time round (which fully he acknowledged, always supported bf just found it hard to let go of his prior v active social life) and I have some other health conditions and I felt it took me physically a v long time to recover from an emcs. I would have preferred a vbac with no 2 but I could tell my dh felt uneasy about that; I emphasised that if I had a elcs I abso bloody lutely would be taking it very easy.

In the end I had to have an elcs (and it was actually really oddly healing) and ironically I actually recovered much more quickly though I do think it took 5 months to feel fully strong again.

I'm lucky in that I have many amenities and school very close but I was very careful due to the elcs for the first 4 weeks. We have no family near by but it was ok. So I do feel there was an enforced bedding in due to elcs, making sure I paced carefully etc.

After 8 weeks I actually was really doing a fair bit including 2 family holidays and a visit to friends. I did also let him breast sleep a lot so fed while he dozed and I rested watching tv. It killed two birds with one stone and he also put on a huge amount of weight so it must have been good! The age gap helped though. But I couldn't afford not to pace due to health.

The biggest thing though is that I lowered the bar on many things. When my eldest was off school we kept things simple and easy. Summer helped though.

I would definitely like to see more honesty in breastfeeding campaigns about how hard and time consuming it is to establish breastfeeding.

We live in a culture where it's fashionable to downplay how difficult and life-changing it is having a baby. You even see it on here, do an AIBU to not want to travel 100 miles to MILs 60th at 1 week post partum? type thread and you get loads of "you aren't the first person to have a baby" unsympathetic posts.

Lol I was in that exact situation and said no way Jose 2 months before birth. But I'm lucky that both side of the family are supportive and the section was a big factor there.

I recall people saying, you lazy sod did you not have dinner ready for DH coming in, go for a walk, fresh air will do you good, etc etc. I'm sure it was well ment I think people (my family) were worried that I was becoming depressed.
When actually I was just knackered but over the moon to be cuddling my very much long awaited baby2 on the couch.

I agree it's fashionable to underestimate how hard newborns are but I think there's various reasons behind it particularly from mums / MILs.
Women in the 70's were routinely kept in hospital for 4/5 days post birth. Bed rest for first 24hrs.
Babies were taken to nurseries for mum to rest. Rooming in and caring for your own baby were alien.
More women were SAHM's so probably lent a hand.
Babies were generally FFed and on a 3hr routine.
In turn Mum's got lots of support and rest.

I'm also half convinced that people genuinely forget how tough the new born phase is. Maybe its the lack of sleep, or hormones, or something but people do forget how tough it is.

Yes you absolutely forget. I have ten years between my two and I knew the newborn bit was tough but I couldn't conceptualise how. I think it's started to fade already and DS2 is only 6 months old.

It's not even the baby care, though that is intensive enough, it's the truckload of hormones - I felt as though I was depressed or grieving for the first two weeks, every time I tried to eat (for some reason) it would come raining down on me, I ended up eating half of my meals through tears - physically recovering from birth, which saps your energy, mentally processing the birth, mine was straightforward on paper, but I couldn't recount it for many months and when I tried to explain to DH how I was feeling all I could get out was "I'm overwhelmed".

I was vvv lucky in that I had a very concerned lovely friend (and mother of four) on hand being my "mother figure" because we live so far away from family and she essentially chided me for not being lazy enough :) and kept saying "Your body is healing. Slow down. Do not walk around shops." That gave me the confidence to simply say when I needed more rest. And DH is wonderfully supportive and wouldn't have had me lifting a finger either so that was a relief. Plus we are lucky in where we live that there is actual shared parental leave here and he was able to take 5 months off, 3 FT, 2 PT, which also eased the newborn period immensely.

I agree with most of the posts so far, including how bloody hard BF and newborns in general can be

I think in a previous life I must have been a wet nurse, as I found it easy to express and had surplus (which I donated when possible). I also briefly discussed supporting a good friend who had a baby two months younger than mine who was struggling with BF - we had got as far as agreeing that if it wasn't improved by the weekend, I would give her a feed to give my friend a rest and see if the baby could actually latch properly. Fortunately, they got things sussed, so it wasn't needed - but I would have done it for them in a heartbeat

Agree with all saying it's hard to establish bf, very hard, but so worth it once you're there. Support in the early weeks is so important and yet near me all the breastfeeding clinics were closed, the closest was a half hours drive away, which I couldn't do as I couldn't drive due to c-section. The lack of appreciation for how hard it is is another example of how women's work is undervalued. It's very, very hard work and yet the health visitors directed every question at me and I was clearly expected to be the one writing down the appointments etc, when actually had they directed all that at DH it would have given me much needed space and have helped him feel more involved (he felt left out).

I also think the longer term impact on womens' mental health of early postpartum struggles is under-appreciated and not studied. My mum bitterly, bitterly regrets not bf (even 40 years later!) and feels she was badly let down and this has affected her her whole life. She is the staunchest advocate of me bf my children even though we don't always agree on much else.

The narrative in the media, however, is that there is some sort of war between breast vs bottle (you know, rather than reflecting that women are not supported) - it's a straw man

So many threads get derailed this way, when we should be able to have productive discussions.

Donor milk is an interesting angle, but I kind of respect the altruistic version that’s currently available for premature infants. Not too comfortable with the idea of monetizing it (could well imagine a woman pumping milk for a wealthy family’s baby while her baby gets formula. It isn’t wrong and could be a valid choice for her family, but it makes you feel uncomfortable all the same).

There is another thread going on saying Dads should get 12mths paternity leave. Where they think the moneys coming from to pay for that I don't know.

However its got me thinking that actually maybe 4-6 weeks paternity at a 90% of pay, same at maternity pay would be beneficial to mums. Let Dad (or other mum) take over the running of the house leaving mum to concentrate on the baby.

Dads being entitled to same 90% as mum might also balance things in the workplace a bit better.

I agree, I wonder if it would BF rates if dad's had extra time that could be spent enabling mum to just rest and feed.

Yes that's an excellent point.

My dh would have struggled though as it's his own company; but then companies would be forced to have to accommodate it.

6 weeks certainly helps cover if you have a cs.

The reality of bf, cs, other children if you're a single mum really results in formula being an easier option.

Also at the risk of TAAT I do remember a mum of 2 struggling with an active toddler and a newborn who needed lots of feeds and instead of offering to help look after the toddler all family could suggest was switching to formula. I bet that's a really common attitude.

Yes the media is definitely pushing the idea there’s a conflict. I think social media plays a role too- forums can be judgey as. Lots of competition and scorn.

There are some socioeconomic issues as well I think. I bfd the first for 18m and I remember when I stopped I was judged for ‘stopping early’ by one very sniffy mum and judged by someone else (from back home) who was genuinely horrified I was feeding an 18m old. You can’t win either way.

Agree completely that a few weeks off for the father at the start would be so beneficial. I was lucky enough to have this as dh took leave and saved holiday and it did make a difference. I know some of the Scandinavian countries encourage this by having x amount of days both parents can take together.

Ultimately I think if you want women to breastfeed you’ve got to support them - not just with bf clinics and pamphlets but with the structural stuff. I mix fed the second because the first cluster fed for six hours an evening and every hour all night for months on end and i just couldn’t do that with older kids to look after.

In one piece of documentation training on domestic abuse, I saw prevention of breastfeeding being given as an example of sexual abuse/ coercive control.

Obviously encouraging onto formula is different but I don't think people really consider it in this light. It's seen as a simple a choice^^ as which brand of formula you wish to use.

Milk donation will only ever be a small scale operation because it's very labour intensive and fraught with ethical issues if payment is involved, then there's the hygiene aspect.

Formula is the best alternative if women cannot feed naturally but we should as a matter of urgency put a far better framework of support in for women to establish breastfeeding, and immediately enshrine laws to protect women's right to breastfeed in public wherever a baby can legally be (and where for hygiene/practicality reasons a suitable space rather than the toilets offered eg large shops, supermarkets, shopping centres) and all workplaces should provide a private space to pump and a dedicated fridge on demand no matter how small.

The flip side is we should stop giving free milk to low income unless it's a specific formula for health reasons, multiple birth, premature or a dr has confirmed they are unable to breastfeed (actually very rare at term), knowing you have to pay will make people persevere, it did me!

I have very strong feelings about this as I developed PND after being unable to fully breastfeed DD. The advice I received- a full tongue tie shouldn’t stop BF from working. You don’t need to get it clipped. This was after DD had lost a lot of weight post birth- was dreadful. The support was more like endless pressure and judgement.

As someone who is always anxious to to their best for everyone the expectation vs the reality and the pressure from those around me robbed me of any joy in the first year of DDs life. Only recently have I come to understand how wrong the system is.

And I am far from the only one to have those experience. I have recently seen two friends competent crushed by the weight of breast feeding expectations and their failure to fulfil them. One friend persisted in trying to breastfeed exclusively her 3 week old after he was hospitalised with extreme weight lose, dehydration and failure to thrive. She cried when they tube fed him formula to try to help him. She had read so much in BF forums that she believed that the formula would make him sick. She went home with him four days later and tried to EBF straight away- o the advice of the hospital lactation consultant. Her baby was rehospitalised two days later with dehydration and weight loss.

The narrative is so warped now. The claims made in either side so terrible. And desperate women and their babies are being hurt by it.

I don’t give a fuck if BF is better on a population level. Just one person who was sympathetic and not ideology driven would have made a difference to both myself and my poor friend.

I’ll never get that first year back. And I thank the midwife who finally told me that is was ok to give her formula if I wanted to.

I don’t give a fuck if BF is better on a population level. Just one person who was sympathetic and not ideology driven would have made a difference to both myself and my poor friend.

That’s kind of what I’m saying - the disconnect between what general policy should be and what benefits the individual is wide. I struggled with my first, and never really produced enough milk. I did end up getting Ok at it and fed for a long time. But there was no help past ‘his latch looks ok’ and a sense that I should just try harder. And that if it didn’t work I’d failed, and that was awful.
The figures for women who can’t bf at all are low but they don’t tell the whole story - they seem to be (from what I can tell ) women who produce zero milk. That doesn’t include women who produce not enough, or who have babies with severe tongue ties or other issues. Just from personal experience I think about 15% ish of women I know had issues, far higher than the numbers I was given.

By the time i had my second I was more confident and mix fed, and it was SO much easier for me. My first, I felt so guilty, I had people tell me that even one formula feed would give them diabetes, which I know is bollocks but it adds to the general sense of judgement. Ive even had people get judgey about mix feeding. It’s absolutely none of their business and now I’m confident enough to point that out...

The message should be ‘bf is great and on the whole has many benefits. If you want to bf we have this support. If you don’t, that’s fine too, formula is fine and we have this support - do what fits with your life and your individual baby, the most important thing is that they are fed and you are ok.’

I think it's a case of don't tell women what breastfeeding is really like because it will put them off and then when they find out what it is really like hopefully the guilt will push them to continue.

I'd never heard of cluster feeding, I didn't expect to be tethered to the sofa every single evening for 4 months and I can see how a person could interpret it as them not having enough milk and the baby starving. This approach is probably why we have high initiation rates but with a sharp drop off.

immediately enshrine laws to protect women's right to breastfeed in public

I don't know about England but in Scotland the baby has a right to be breastfed wherever.
I can't remember exactly how its worded but its the baby's right to be fed rather than the mother's right to feed.

Yip I'm sure many mums perceive they don't have enough milk because of cluster feeding. Part of the knowledge lost in the FFing generations.