Page 6 | So what if trans women take over women’s sport?

nellieellie · 2019-02-23T11:23:21+00:00

Don’t know if this has already been copied but apparently if trans women did win all the trophies it would be a good thing. [[https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/caster-semenya-news-gender-martina-navratilova-trans-cas-jonathan-liew-column-a8792861.html#]]

McTufty · 24/02/2019 20:55

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/24/terry-miller-andraya-yearwood-transgender-sprinter/

Trans women come first and second in Connecticut female track competition - Jonathan must be so INSPIRED

Trousering · 24/02/2019 22:24

Critics say their gender identity amounts to an unfair advantage, expressing a familiar argument in a complex debate for transgender athletes as they break barriers across sports around the world from high school to the pros.

Break barriers is a funny choice of words for what they are doing. What are the barriers being broken exactly?

youllhavehadyourtea · 24/02/2019 22:30

What are the barriers being broken exactly?

Cheating.

BlackForestCake · 24/02/2019 22:58

all this applies equally whether men falsely claim to be trans women

Think of what this actually means.

Whether men really prefer sex stereotypes associated with the opposite sex to those associated with their own sex – or only falsely claim to prefer sex stereotypes associated with the opposite sex to those associated with their own sex.

It's a ridiculous distinction

InionEile · 25/02/2019 05:17

Two paragraphs in and I see 'hysteria' rears its ugly head. Yes, all of us ladies are hysterical bigots, sure. No point looking at our arguments and thinking about them because it's just hysteria.

Other than that, his main argument seems to be: there will always be difference in sport, some people are taller, some people are bigger and stronger, most of 'some people' happen to be men but that's ok because women's sports don't matter anyway. Ladies, you're not as strong as men: tough shit, suck it up!

I'm sure there are many men who think like this - men and stronger and bigger, women just need to shut up and deal - but they would never have had the guts to say it without the trans rights activists making it possible to openly hate women so much.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/02/2019 08:13

In the context of the appalling sexism shown by the Independent's chief sports writer, I was struck by this in (guess where) The Times ...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lack-of-women-managers-is-britains-greatest-institutionalised-prejudice-rrzgtnvcq?shareToken=89822069ae0e1c7176edfface8f5828e

I guess football may be particularly bad, but are other sports also generally institutionally sexist?

WeRiseUp · 25/02/2019 11:33

I'm sure there are many men who think like this - men and stronger and bigger, women just need to shut up and deal - but they would never have had the guts to say it without the trans rights activists making it possible to openly hate women so much.

Yup.

littlbrowndog · 25/02/2019 12:34

medium.com/@Antonia_Lee/transgender-sport-advantage-upon-advantage-d5195a3156ac

Datun · 25/02/2019 13:13

Apparently McKinnon has absolutely lost it on Twitter. After the interview with Abigail.

Full on, shouting rage.

No one appears to be listening. But I hope it's being noticed.

Needmoresleep · 25/02/2019 13:42

After some well published issues over sexism in football punditry a number of women have recently been recruited by both the BBC and Sky.

And overall they are very very good indeed. As good as, if not better, than your average male ex-player. Seemingly met with acceptance rather than push back. Add this to an increasing interest in women’s football, popular in part because it is both cheaper and more family friendly than men’s, and we should start to see women managers come through.

The real shocker was always the absence of black managers, especially given how many black players there are, but again in the past few years a good handful have started to come through.

Bowlofbabelfish · 25/02/2019 13:43

McKinnon is putting a load of graphs up and then just failing to understand what they are saying. It’s very clear they have no stats/scientific background ( I’m chuckling at the testosterone one...)

I’d love to see them go head to head with someone who understands the science. That would be very interesting indeed.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 25/02/2019 13:55

Ah McKinnon's now accusing everyone disagreeing as DARVO.

Definitely acquired from reading MN, very much doubt any reading around it on the relationships board/women's issues took place, so another appropriation without the faintest idea of what it really means. Like 'small and noisy minority' got appropriated. I'll wait until the toilet brush/5 month chicken and darked on sheets get appropriated too.

Barracker · 25/02/2019 14:02

Jonathan appears to have changed his tune about the importance of women's sports the last couple of years...
From
Why don't you all GAF about women's sports, like me?
to
Why I don't GAF about women's sports and people who do are bigots.

So what if trans women take over women’s sport?

littlbrowndog · 25/02/2019 14:08

Jeez Jonathan
How he has erm changed

Datun · 25/02/2019 14:16

Ah McKinnon's now accusing everyone disagreeing as DARVO.

The hunch on kiwi farms, is that McKinnon reads feminist books, in order to hone the misogyny.

Man those guys are good.

IfNotNowThenWhy · 25/02/2019 14:32

To be fair, being Cheif Sports Writer at the Independent is on a par with being Cheif Organic Vegan Cookery Writer at the Sunday Sport.

Bowlofbabelfish · 25/02/2019 14:39

The hunch on kiwi farms, is that McKinnon reads feminist books, in order to hone the misogyny.

They’ve obviously read some Science Books as well because they’re using some of the right words. Just not in any order that makes sense.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/02/2019 15:58

Good of McKinnon to spread the concept of DARVO ... most people will be able to see perfectly clearly who is attempting the reverse between victim and offender here.

Homestar · 25/02/2019 17:02

They found low testosterone in 25.4% of the elite CIS MEN athletes

From McKinnon's Twitter meltdown. I am SO GLAD that Rachel is highlighting this. Okay, the lower than average testosterone in athletes specifically is probably due to doping withdrawal, but...

THANK YOU RACHEL. Thank you for pointing out that lowered testosterone levels are not enough! Men have to be kept out of women's sports, no matter what their measured testosterone levels are. I hope the IOC are paying attention.

I've archived this in case McKinnon cops on to themselves and deletes it. Should be very useful in future discussions of transwomen in women's sports.

archive.st/ord3

Sometimes I'm quite glad Rachel McKinnon exists.

VickyEadie · 25/02/2019 17:10

McKinnon producing stats on testosterone in male athletes does - as others point out - prove the case that it's not just current levels of testosterone that give men their massive advantage over women and demonstrates why we have sex-segregated events.

Thanks, Rachel!

OldCrone · 25/02/2019 17:13

Transwomen and women's sport coming up on Radio 4 sometime between now and 6pm.

Datun · 25/02/2019 17:57

They’ve obviously read some Science Books as well because they’re using some of the right words. Just not in any order that makes sense. grin

They're the Andrew Preview of sports transactivism.

BreakWindandFire · 28/02/2019 12:51

So after the Sports Editor of the Independent wrote he wanted to end women's sports so not to offend transwomen, the Associate Editor of the Independent has called for the Satanic Verses (which he's not read) to be banned and burned so no to offend Muslims.

The Indie does like giving up lesser people's rights across the board don't they?

BorneBackCeaselesslyIntoThePas · 28/02/2019 14:26

They're the Andrew Preview of sports transactivism.

I was drinking a cup of tea when I read that!!

TransposersArePosers · 28/02/2019 16:23

I'm not on Twitter - but has anyone pointed out to RM that RM has just opposed RM's own argument? And if so, what happened next?