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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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#TeamNavratilova is gathering pace!

731 replies

SpeakUpXXWomen · 20/02/2019 12:19

Firing Martina from Allies is working out to be an own goal as more people stand up and speak out on this.

twitter.com/hashtag/TeamNavratilova?src=hash

We know how twitter works Hmm in regards to women speaking out so perhaps this thread could be a place to gather excellent quotes and pictures for people to spread across other platforms and show that Martina's views are shared not by a trickle of support but a tidal wave.

I feel in need of a very nice #TeamNavratilova picture to put on my fbook, any social media gurus around to advise?

OP posts:
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OvaHere · 20/02/2019 18:02

India often comes perilously close to understanding why women have an issue with trans ideology but India has invested too much into this to allow the full house of cards to come down.

Datun · 20/02/2019 18:14

The problem with Willoughby is their sexism is ingrained into every cell.

Their one-dimensional view of women will always prevent them from supporting women or understanding where they are coming from.

When Posie was on TV with Willoughby, Willoughby was categorically unable to understand that them displaying femininity was not sufficient to be a woman. Whilst instinctively playing on Posie's female socialisation to leverage their advantage.

Willoughby will never, ever support women. Because they simply have no concept of what it's like to be one.

The sports thing is far easier for them to support. Because you really do have to be teetering on insanity not to.

Threewheeler1 · 20/02/2019 18:26

Martina is an absolute legend. She gets better and better.
Watching her play when I was growing up was inspiring and listening to her now makes me feel the same.
So bloody dignified, honest and clear.
What a woman. Love her.

deepwatersolo · 20/02/2019 18:30

Judging from Glenn Greenwald‘s Twitter timeline, he is Team Martina, too. Smile

deepwatersolo · 20/02/2019 18:32

Quoting Glenn Greenwald: ‚If she (Martina Navratilova) is the enemy of your cause, evaluate your cause.‘

Datun · 20/02/2019 18:34

Quoting Glenn Greenwald: ‚If she (Martina Navratilova) is the enemy of your cause, evaluate your cause.‘^•

Ooh that's good. That exposes everything.

hackmum · 20/02/2019 18:51

The good thing about this is that almost everyone likes and respects Navratilova. She's one of the greatest tennis players. She's an authoritative commentator. She's a lesbian icon. She is also, apparently, a very nice person. Anyone who hears Navratilova accused of being transphobic or bigoted is going to be sceptical.

deepwatersolo · 20/02/2019 19:02

Yeah, hackum, Greenwald goes into quite some detail about Martina‘s achievements for LGBT rights&visibility at high personal costs before reaching his conclusion.
I do wonder, whether Owen Jones will label Glenn as a TERF now.

IDoN0tCare · 20/02/2019 19:03

IW is just panicking because the misogynistic TRA house of cards is starting to fall down. I can guarantee that if the public support for Martina wasn’t so huge and other well known people weren’t vocal in their support of her, IW would be giving a very different opinion.

In their arrogance, they overplayed their hand by treating Martina like this. They’ve been able to get GC women no platformed, thrown out of political parties, women’s meetings closed down, etc. They thought they were invincible, but didn’t bank on the groundswell of support and love for Martina.

I’m really sorry Martina, but it’s actually fantastic for women that they’ve done this.

Floisme · 20/02/2019 19:14

I've been checking Chris Evert's Twitter for the last couple of days. I always had the impression that she and Martina were good mates, even when they were knocking seven bells out of each other on court. It's a cautious start but I think she''ll come good.

HumberElla · 20/02/2019 19:25

Channel 5 news just covered this. 3 transwomen discussing - Kelly Maloney (boxing promoter), Sophie Cook ( i think? Football?) and Debbie Hayton (frequently here, hi Debbie!).
Debbie talking common sense as ever.
The other two doing the ‘why would anyone put their body through that just to win a medal?!’ guff. Kelly actually saying when you transition you lose the ‘mentality and drive’ to compete or some such rubbish!

Interestingly though the two of them were reluctant to call Martina transphobic even when asked the question directly. Fudged it by saying she didn’t understand the issues.

HumberElla · 20/02/2019 19:32

No, sorry, Lucy Clark the referee. Correction to above post, I missed the introduction bit.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2019 19:35

I'm sure Debbie would agree that they should have also have an all women discussion as well...

The issue is women's sports, and women's rights, not just trans rights. As far as sports is concerned, women aren't a disadvantaged minority.... we're a disadvantaged majority which is worse.Hmm

ToeToToe · 20/02/2019 19:44

Pierce O'Callaghan (athletics) has spoken out.

I’ve 3 daughters & a son & see their differences daily. They all love sport but clearly if the female category wasn’t protected no female would ever win a medal. Like others, I know this tweet will bring a barrage of hate but for sport lovers a simple like will show u agree.

twitter.com/Pierceathletics/status/1098122304473702400

Retired sports people seem more ready to speak out (understandably).

MsMcWoodle · 20/02/2019 19:51

Errol - the issue is women's sports'.
Yes - a final bit of me broke watching that. Women weren't even considered to be important enough to include in the discussion.

BreakWindandFire · 20/02/2019 19:52

While Boy George is wrong on this one (I was a Durannie anyway Grin), he's generally GC and argues forcefully but respectfully. He's not going to have a hissy fit and call people terfs. I can agree to disagree with him.

littlbrowndog · 20/02/2019 19:55

Why don’t they ask women on to discuss
We can speak and have opions on women’s sport

Ffs we are women
We don’t need guys discussing us

Threewheeler1 · 20/02/2019 19:57

It's never just about upholding women's rights, spotlight is always on trans rights and hurt feelings. Because they appear to be more important in every issue that affects women.
We really are the 'second sex' as far as a lot of men are concerned.

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 20/02/2019 19:58

Channel 5 news just covered this. 3 transwomen discussing - Kelly Maloney (boxing promoter), Sophie Cook ( i think? Football?) and Debbie Hayton

And non of those are women athletes.

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 20/02/2019 20:01

Why is this always happening. This monumental undermining of women's rights is being discussed by men and males who identify as women.

Why are no gender critical women being invited onto any of these media discussions?

This is just propaganda and shows how the media manipulates the reality of the situation to plug the agenda that they want everybody to believe.

OvaHere · 20/02/2019 20:13

I keep seeing this argument on twitter that most elite level athletes are exceptional or outliers in terms of physique. I think there is some truth to that but I don't understand why it's an argument against segregating by sex.

I have a long time friend who is a very good amateur athlete and she has always been much better than me at any sports we have attempted together in the past probably because she is 5'11 to my 5'4 with long limbs and a muscular build.

I don't begrudge her this at all, she has some fantastic achievements under her belt which I wouldn't achieve no matter how much training I undertook. In return I don't think she begrudges me the ease in which I find a variety of trousers and shoes which fit my size Grin.

I also note that her same age male partner competes in many of the same sports (they train together). He massively outranks her with little effort despite her being towards the upper end of what women can achieve.

OvaHere · 20/02/2019 20:18

Just to add their teen son also now competes and whilst not yet at his Father's level already surpasses his Mother.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2019 20:28

I keep seeing this argument on twitter that most elite level athletes are exceptional or outliers in terms of physique

Yes - exceptional for their sex.

Note that (afaik) none of these trans athletes seem to think that the solution is to get rid of two categories. Just they want to - literally - muscle into the one in which hey, presto, they are suddenly likely to be exceptional.

Courday · 20/02/2019 20:30

This is brilliant news.
I am one of the victims of twitter's recent purge of GC users otherwise I would have been spreading the word there.
I knew McKinnon would regret their behaviour towards Martina. All they have done is peaktrans people in their thousands, one might accuse them (like a certain Dr) of actually being in the GC side the damage they have done to the trans campaign.
Anyone left of twitter, please remember to copy Martina's tweet onto any prominent sports people you can think of. Could this be a turning point in this nonsense?

Courday · 20/02/2019 20:35

I believe Judy Murray has been falsely accused of being "transphobic" in the past. I would love it if she could feel able to join Martina in this - even better if Andy could too, he has been amazing in the past speaking out for women sportspeople.
Come on Andy, they need you right now - please.