#TeamNavratilova is gathering pace!

[SpeakUpXXWomen]

Firing Martina from Allies is working out to be an own goal as more people stand up and speak out on this.

twitter.com/hashtag/TeamNavratilova?src=hash

We know how twitter works in regards to women speaking out so perhaps this thread could be a place to gather excellent quotes and pictures for people to spread across other platforms and show that Martina's views are shared not by a trickle of support but a tidal wave.

I feel in need of a very nice #TeamNavratilova picture to put on my fbook, any social media gurus around to advise?

Does anyone remember who it was on Women's hour who tried to argue that women just don't try hard enough?
Someone should send that to Paula/Kelly/Martina

If was the sociology professor from Aston, Ellis Cashmore, wasn’t it?

I think the not trying hard enough comment on WH was Prof Sally Hines, but someone with a better memory will confirm.

I think it was someone from Loughborough Uni.

Sally Hines

Or maybe not

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002mmm

It was the Jeremy vine show - starts at 1.41. The bloke is a complete nutcase and interrupts Sharon so many times!!

It was also said on Woman's Hour a while ago - I think it was Sally Hines.

The naivety of Cllr Brian Silvester saying 'why aren't feminist groups speaking up about this?' is almost endearing. Get yourself onto Mumsnet Bri!!!

I wonder if this will also be the time when people realise that the T has been tacked onto LGB for their own purposes, and not because there is actually any link or care for LGB issues amongst the TRAs.

I saw Emma Freud’s tweet just now too. It feels like the tide is turning and women are feeling less afraid to make their views public.

That, or people didn’t appreciate the madness of trans ideology until they saw its effect on women’s sport.

The person on Woman’s Hour who said women needed to try harder was Dr Beth Jones from Loughborough. Sally Hines was being interviewed in that same series but didn’t say that.

I think it was probably Beth Jones. Let's not give Sally Hines all the credit.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001f05

Thanks nettie - was just looking for the thread and realised it wasn't the Sally Hines one.

I am not sure Debbie Hayton does get it I am afraid. Debbie could have made that point then and there. My patience is wafer thin.

Absinthefriends I didn’t want Sally to find something she didn’t say when she comes on MN to see what’s being discussed!

www.nature.com/news/2004/040927/full/news040927-9.html

There was a report, a few years ago, looking at the improvement in 100m speeds for women and projecting women could beat men eventually.
Academics piled on to point out that the increase in speeds was probably actually down to bringing in new training for women and we weren't actually likely to beat men because of pesky biology.

I wonder if that reports was the start of a lot of this sinister shit. Numpties like Beth Jones thinking we should just try harder?

I really wish that Debbie wouldn't take up these spaces that should be taken by a woman. Debbie certainly shouldn't be there if there's no woman at all involved.

I just listened to that clip in the link posted by kesstrel.

Jeez. It's bonkers. Beth Jones is bonkers. (Nic W is amazing - calm and clear.) The particular bit about women needing to try harder is 2 mins 30 in.

There was a post earlier about media requests and university lists of ‘experts’ which I think explains a lot. Unlike some other people we know, Debbie agrees to be interviewed without setting rules about who she will appear with etc so I am sure that’s why she is often contacted by the media. Plus, although I don’t know Debbie at all, she comes across as having a strong sense of duty. I think she wants people to see her and think NATALT (to adapt an acronym)

I think Chris Evert was sitting on the fence a bit, but someone on her twitter feed said - "if you and Martina had to play against Borg and McEnroe, you wouldn't have won anything"

A bit harsh maybe, but the truth often is.

I’m just hoping JK Rowling is seeing these women dipping their toes into the water and thinking seriously about following suit.

Personally, I would rather a discussion included @DebbieHayton than that it was just between two TW who don't have any concern at all for women's rights. I also don't think it's unreasonable for Debbie to prioritise TS concerns rather than women's - Debbie is a spokesperson for TS people not women. But yes, it would be good to at least raise the question, hang on, why don't you have any females here discussing women's sports/whatever.

That would be fine Errol but Debbie is often seen as putting forward the gender critical viewpoint, she can't do that whilst ignoring the elephant in the room.

Debbie could have made that point then and there.

I have seen Debbie make that point. There is only so much time on a TV slot but I agree- I wish someone would say it every time no woman is present.

I know that some don't agree with all Debbie's views but she's been a long term ally despite horrid abuse from the Butlerian Jihadis for being a 'traitor'. They treat her like a woman in that respect.

The Beth Jones comment about women trying harder was ridiculous. I sometimes wonder what planet these people live on.

What's interesting for me is that in the late 20th century a lot of the barriers to women's participation in all walks of life were removed. And that resulted in women entering the professions - law, medicine, accountancy, academia, politics - in great numbers. You don't see many women at the top of those professions, but you certainly see some. It demonstrated that in terms of academic ability, women and men are equal.

And then you go to sport. Barriers to women's participation have dropped, and top female athletes now benefit from the most modern coaching methods, just as the top male athletes do. They're still a long way off beating men because the strongest, fastest men will always be stronger and faster than the strongest, fastest women. There are simple and immutable biological differences that make this the case.

At this point I feel like I'm explaining why the earth is round to flat earthers. It really is that ridiculous.