Caster Semenya

[LilaJude]

Is anyone else outraged that sports bodies are suggesting forcing Caster Semenyer to take medication to reduce her testosterone levels?

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

How is this fair? We don’t handicap other athletes for having longer legs or more muscle mass. The nature of sport is that people with exceptional bodies triumph.

It’s like these sports governing bodies are saying ‘testosterone is a man thing, women aren’t allowed it.’ But Caster does have it, naturally, and it’s just part of who she is.

I just think it’s outrageous to force a woman to medicate just because a naturally occurring condition means her body doesn’t fit with what is conventionally seen as feminine / female.

Semenya needs to fight for a new category.
I have some sympathy, but it is diminishing quickly.
People with testes, or XY chromosomes, or the SRY gene, or any other objective male sex characteristic are not the same as unambiguous females.
A person with a DSD who is genetically, or physically male in any way may well have grown up having been assigned female. And it would be entirely unethical to challenge their social or legal status as female if they had lived with that from birth.
But in sport and in medicine this is a major, fundamental and critical physical sex difference that separates those with intersex male characteristics from biological females.

And that is that.
Sport must be segregated not by legal sex. Not by social sex. Not by identity. Not by testosterone level.
But by actual, physical, biological sex.

For Semenya to continue to argue not for her right to compete on a level playing field, but against women who have zero male characteristics, is for her to argue for only two categories of sport.

1. People with testes
2. People with testes

And to be honest, I'm disappointed with Semenya's lack of integrity.

The question is always asked in the wrong direction. It should not be "does Semenya fit in the biological women category, and why?"
It should be "do biological women fit in this Semenya category, and why?"

Why do biological women belong in a category for people with testes?

I found this comment from the judgement heartening:
on the basis of the evidence submitted by the parties, such discrimination is a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means of achieving the IAAF's aim of preserving the integrity of female athletics in the restricted events
That's a very clear marker at the highest level of sport about preserving women's sport.
I do feel sorry for Caster as I know she's intersex but suspect that she's been caught up in the evident unfairness created by the current crop of men self identifying as women and taking medals, records etc away from women.

I do feel a a bit sorry for her but she can move to the 5000m and win there instead. This had to happen to protect womens sport.

Also Caster had never helped by always refusing to confirm or deny that she is intersex.

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

Caster has internal male testes and all of the biological advantage that comes with that. She was raised a girl due to the lack of external male genitalia.

I’m so happy about this. Trying to pretend that higher testosterone levels confer no advantage was ludicrous.

Will this be applied across all sports now? Fingers crossed.

So caster just moving up to 5000 metres. How does that work then

Right descion to protect women’s athletics. But what about the 5000 metre runners now

Fuck them.

(I am not being serious but that's what it feels like)

I do feel for her but am relieved by the decision.

Me too! But this has to be the right decision. She is essentially male.

Read recently that a young male child that was accidentally castrated during circumcision was then to brought up as a girl. Of course biologically, in every other way, he remains a boy. Poor child!

I don't understand how she can do the 5000 m now, either. Is it because her advantage is less significant at that distance?

This is a relief to me. If Caster had won it would have created a precedent that naturally occurring testosterone levels in women’s sport aren’t an issue and it isn’t hard to see where that would have led.

Not an expert but there have been some incredible results for women with long distance running so maybe there is less of an advantage? Slight framed, wiry runners do well at long distance and there's evidence about the positive impact of pregnancy on long distance runners I believe? (Awaits an expert coming along to debunk this )

I don't understand how she can do the 5000 m now, either. Is it because her advantage is less significant at that distance?

Have to say this is really kicking the can up the road. If she is a biological male in terms of testosterone and all of the biological advantages that come with that from puberty, then she really needs to be competing with males.

Caster is a woman. The DSD does not negate that, but goes give her a real competitive advantage. I really feel for her and hope she has good support.

I also feel it’s unlucky the trans discussions are happening now. Caster should not be dragged into those, it’s a totally different situation.

Year ago, after the first time Caster ever ran, they interviewed her Mom who said proudly “she’s all girl, I changed all her diapers so I’d know!” (no one knew she had DSD).

It’s a difficult one.

Also Caster had never helped by always refusing to confirm or deny that she is intersex.

There are people here saying she is male and has internal testes, but my understanding was the same as Fazackerley's, that it has never been made public what DSD she has (if any).

If current trends continue, I suspect that government like China which really really do not care about anything but winning, will stop bothering about encouraging girls' sport and focus their resources on scouting for and nurturing intersex/trans talent. So: are we OK with this? Does it fit with the original underlying reasons why we started a women's category in sport in the first place?

I agree. It looks like some kind of sop. And undoes all the logic and reasoning that excludes her from the other events.

It’s incredibly frustrating, though slightly understandable, that Semenya’s diagnosis hasn’t been disclosed as it would massively help everyone understand the rationale behind this. It’s the correct decision. I don’t think Semenya will be successful at 5000m. Wrong build, for either sex.

"The tests carried out on the 18 year-old shortly after her victory in Berlin are believed to have shown that she has a chromosomal abnormality that gives her both male and female characteristics.
According to reports in the Australian media, the medical tests have established that she has no womb or ovaries and that she also has internal testes – the male sexual organs responsible for producing testosterone.Earlier analysis had revealed that Semenya's testosterone levels were three times the normal level for a woman."

According to reports in the Australian media, the medical tests have established that she has no womb or ovaries and that she also has internal testes – the male sexual organs responsible for producing testosterone.

Does that mean she has a Y chromosome?

The thing is she has a very unfair advantage. Women are banned from competing if they take testosterone to increase their performance but she has very high levels naturally and that’s ok? Outside of sport she lives her life as a man. Dresses like a man. Sounds like a man. Was the ‘groom’ at her wedding. But in sport she is all ‘woman’? Men and women’s events are separate because men are naturally stronger, faster, bigger and more powerful. A ‘normal’ woman doesn’t stand a chance against Caster. Damn right she should take meds to lower her testosterone if she wants to compete. It’s only fair to level the playing field. Otherwise she must quit or compete against men. If I didn’t know her story I would never guess she was actually female. The only time Caster pretends to be female is on the track. Watch this clip on YouTube and tell me if I’m wrong.

The two most likely diagnoses are either partial androgen insensitivity syndrome or 5 alpha ready tase deficiency.