Caster Semenya

[LilaJude]

Is anyone else outraged that sports bodies are suggesting forcing Caster Semenyer to take medication to reduce her testosterone levels?

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

How is this fair? We don’t handicap other athletes for having longer legs or more muscle mass. The nature of sport is that people with exceptional bodies triumph.

It’s like these sports governing bodies are saying ‘testosterone is a man thing, women aren’t allowed it.’ But Caster does have it, naturally, and it’s just part of who she is.

I just think it’s outrageous to force a woman to medicate just because a naturally occurring condition means her body doesn’t fit with what is conventionally seen as feminine / female.

Not that they were going to force her to take hormones, as your OP suggests. Which is a totally different thing.

The decision today stated that if CS persists in the desire to compete in the female category, hormone treatment is required to reduce testosterone levels.

The decision lies with CS. There is no compulsion here.

Either compete as a male or reduce testosterone level to 5 nMols/L or below [average female level is 0.7 to 2.5 nMols/L].

It is for CS to choose.

Prettyvase I wouldn’t know, and personally I try not to judge anyone by the way they choose to present themselves.

The point I was hoping to get across is that the news piece seemed to be discussing lots of entirely irrelevant waffle. Such as whether athletes were being punished, suffering discrimination and not allowed to compete due to western expectations of femininity.

The public and female athletes deserve the truth and better reporting.

Oops! Should have included that CS needs to make that choice if desire persists to compete in female category for 400m, 800m, 1500m and / or 1 mile track events alongside XX females.

But then Cathy hosted the ridiculous channel 4 ‘Genderquake’ debate (no debate). So she has form in being deliberately blind to sex differences.

I don't believe that there was a conscious ploy by Caster and her parents from an early age to raise her as a girl in order to win Olympic medals. Does anyone really believe that? A baby born in very impoverished conditions, no antenatal scans, no NHS. Baby is born and midwife tells the parents it's a girl. Parents may or may not notice that the genitals aren't the same as their other children but have neither the money nor the inclination to investigate.

By the time the child hits puberty, they have had 12 years or more of having a daughter. But you're still skint, poorly educated and in the middle of nowhere in rural South Africa. Investigating why she isn't having periods and why she's got such a deep voice isn't an option.

I can totally see how it can happen. And it's a lot to get your head around for all involved.

But difficult as it is for Caster and her family, if she is biologically male, then of course she can't compete with women. And if she's a bit of both (is that even possible, haven't studied biology in depth) then taking the testosterone reducing drugs is a compromise. And of course those limits should apply to everyone competing in the women's events. Everyone.

I don't believe that there was a conscious ploy by Caster and her parents from an early age to raise her as a girl in order to win Olympic medals

I’m confused, where did someone state that?

DonkeyHohtay

Except that a decade ago [2009]. CS, at age of 18 years, knew the truth as did many others:

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/11/30/eitheror

Oh I agree that by the time she started competing on the international stage and questions were being asked, she knew. She has the full report into her medical status.

It's at that point she should have stepped back and pursued another career.

It's at that point she should have stepped back and pursued another career.

The authorities knew too, yet let her compete. If Sharron Davies is correct,and trainers are actively looking for athletes with DSD, this seems to be institutional sanctioned deceit.

Watching channel 4 news and all the descriptions of this case are very opaque.CS Should be allowed to compete naturally without being forced to take medication

Yes, it's opaque because the full facts have not been openly presented. Of course Caster should continue to compete if she so wishes, but in a male category which is most appropriate to her chromosomal and biological sex.

Her naturally occurring testosterone

She has naturally occurring testosterone because she has testes, not ovaries; because she went through male puberty.

Disagree with pps that caster “lives as a man”. What does that mean?

Dresses as a man; was brought up and identified with boys; doesn't relate to girls; and is married to a woman who considered herself heterosexual.

institutional sanctioned deceit.

Otherwise known as corruption.

This all needs to be independently investigated to the nth degree.

Yup! It seems that Ms Newman needs to do much more research before embarrassing herself.

The fact is that the real facts have been long obscured for whatever reason. Another fact is that Caster was 'assigned' female at birth due to ambiguous female genitalia and an absence of male genitalia. However it appears she went on to identify as male and everyone around her treated her as such - and this was before that her inter-sex condition was even revealed.

The press, and everyone else, has been assuming womanhood based on the 'she' pronoun, and due to the fact that the true nature of the increased testosterone levels and clear male physique, facial features and voice, has been attributed to a 'naturally occurring phenomenon'. This has made it seem as if Caster's primary sex is female - rather than the male it really is. And so everyone is assuming a misinterpreted and unjustly treated woman.

JackyHolyoake Have I mentioned lately that you’re fab?

I hope Lynsey Sharp feels some vindication for her comments about the Rio 800m in which she was 6th. Behind 3 intersex athletes ?? All of whom may in fact have Y chromosome and be biologically male. She said at the time that there were 2 races that night and was torn to shred by the media /on Twitter
Lynsey Sharp should be an Olympic medalist. Having watched that video I feel pretty angry about this and agree this is gaslighting on a international scale

mirandayardley.com/en/caster-semenya-no-one-wins/

Clare (MRKH banned from twitter) has written a piece for Miranda's blog. Much needed level headed and informed voice of reason - huge mistake for twitter to ban her.

Yeah to Lynsey Sharp

Cameron sharps daughter. Completely shafted in Rio by the 3 medalists

Nations cheat in elite sports. Well documented.

This is no different.
But now we got a bit of of how sad and caster just wants to run free how caster was born

Jeez so not seeing this and never had

I hope Lynsey Sharp feels some vindication.

Me too. She got the full force of woke outrage, of the kind that shuts everyone else up for fear of the same treatment.

MrsSpenserGregson

"We will stop pandering to people"
"If you have a Y chromosome, you cannot compete in women's sport. You compete in men's sport (that takes care of the likes of Rachael McKinnon as well). If you have no Y chromosome, you compete in women's sport."

This sums it up for me completely, as a male ex athlete (various sports), I want to see women's sports confined to natural women, fair sports, a level playing field.

Surely Caster can compete in men's competition and if Caster isn't good enough, Caster can just try harder?

I'm very glad this decision went the way it did. Its not going to solve all the DSD issues but it does solve a huge bunch of them.

I think its worth pointing out the flip side of the arguments here, which is people with DSD are in the position of either being given a large unearned genetic advantage in one category or having a large genetic disadvantage in the other category. While it is sad that they are being moved to the second of those options, it does mean they are joining the literally billions of us on the planet that have genetic disadvantages that mean we would never be able to become olympic athletes.

My personal genetic disadvantage is linked to very low pain tolerance. I would never be able to bear the pain of high intensity training, that people with high pain tolerance can actually find enjoyable.

I don't get to compete in the olympics...which is sad. But there it is.

This is the right decision and a tiny additional proportion of people will no longer be competitive, while the integrity of the categories is maintained.

I wonder why the story has been pulled from the Times website?