Caster Semenya

[LilaJude]

Is anyone else outraged that sports bodies are suggesting forcing Caster Semenyer to take medication to reduce her testosterone levels?

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

How is this fair? We don’t handicap other athletes for having longer legs or more muscle mass. The nature of sport is that people with exceptional bodies triumph.

It’s like these sports governing bodies are saying ‘testosterone is a man thing, women aren’t allowed it.’ But Caster does have it, naturally, and it’s just part of who she is.

I just think it’s outrageous to force a woman to medicate just because a naturally occurring condition means her body doesn’t fit with what is conventionally seen as feminine / female.

Anyone can watch an athlete pee in a bottle

I’d be very surprised if Pornhub doesn’t have a channel devoted to it.

I read an interesting article on sex testing a couple of months ago that stated that 'humiliating' was a reference to the tests Vicky mentioned which were physical examinations. Like Lilian Board, Mary Peters referred to them as 'crude and degrading'. The other problem then was that they had no psychological support or counselling in place so athletes really could be told they were a different sex and left to get on with it.

Obviously things have changed now and athletes are much more familiar with the process of being tested for doping etc but the legacy of past treatment is hard to ignore.

I understand there is an appeal process so this may not be the end of the matter.

@LilaJude have you seen the video of Caster I posted here and do you still feel outraged about the outcome?

Or and this is more sinister and would tie in with IAAF line, if the The IAAF have been politically under pressure from large country associations to turn a blind eye to it...

Depends what you mean by large country associations. I have seen a number of people online argue that this is effectively a way to level the playing field for the likes of South Africa, given that wealthier countries such as the UK invest a lot more money in athletes. XY is no more unfair than much better training facilities etc. And it is true that the athletes we have seen recently have all been from poorer countries, I guess not least because in the UK, socialised healthcare means Caster would've seen a doctor about her lack of periods well before turning 18.

However it doesn't seem to have occurred to them that there are intersex people in rich countries too, and that there's nothing to stop countries like the UK from both recruiting intersex talent and continuing to provide substantially more financial support than most other programmes.

Watching channel 4 news and all the descriptions of this case are very opaque.

CS Should be allowed to compete naturally without being forced to take medication

We should celebrate naturally occurring genetic variations
Compete in the way she is born
Her naturally occurring testosterone
No proof that relationship between testosterone and athleticism is consistent
Female, woman, she, women’s sport, her, Miss

Cathy Newman questions whether CS is being punished for not conforming to a western idea of what a woman looks like.

Anyone can watch an athlete pee in a bottle. - I’d be very surprised if Pornhub doesn’t have a channel devoted to it.

Not that sort of watersports. Ed.

Not that sort of watersports. Ed.

Howling with laughter .. may need my TENA pads

Wow, that video posted by @prettyvase is an eye opener. I always thought CS was socially a woman, raised to believe she was female, wore traditionally female clothes and was in a lesbian relationship. That video shows CS seems to regard themself as male. Certainly in that clip and the photos they use, I see someone indisputably male, not a butch woman or lesbian.

Go watch a re run of the women’s Olympic 800 metre final. In Rio

So clear there

I dunno even how people ar3 surprised by this

All in full view

Bad time it has been to be a woman running 800 or even 1500 in the past few years

Cathy Newman questions whether CS is being punished for not conforming to a western idea of what a woman looks like.

Can we rewind a bit and point out that the Western idea of what a woman looks like seems to include the likes of Karen White and the Canadians are going ahead with the idea that women with dicks can compete at next year's Olympics.

Can anyone point me to the non-western countries that are also on board with this definition of woman.

Also in terms of science and medicine I thought there was pretty universal agreement that a Y chromosome was an indicator of a male gene rather than this being a weird Western / non western idea.

That argument is one of the more stupid I've seen.

*Have XY athletes for elite sport been deliberately sort and trained because they had better potential than an XX in women's sport.

That's a pretty big question*

Can I have ‘yes’ in the sweepstake please?

nettie434 I’m sure blood tests checking for XX/XY were also deemed ‘humiliating’ in the 90’s. I’m going to try and find a source for that.

Justhadathought I had an article promoted to me recently alleging Caster had fathered a child. Didn’t click though as it wasn’t a site I recognised.

Sky news just covered it despite all the ‘she’ language there was a good use of images and Sharron Davies was very good, clearly pointed out that caster was intersex.

Sky then covered the protests violent rioting in France. Maybe I’m hallucinating and should go and have a little lie down.

Disagree with pps that caster “lives as a man”. What does that mean?

Other than being a man, I mean. “Living as one” doesn’t make sense to me

@HumberElla does the video of Caster look to you like a poor African woman who doesn't conform to the western idea of what a woman should look like?!

@Hermione: yes I thought the same as you until I saw the video, I expect many others did too!

Sorry didn't realise that video had already been posted.

But I concur with the general sentiment.

That argument is one of the more stupid I've seen.

Yup! It seems that Ms Newman needs to do much more research before embarrassing herself.

On the BBC news, they quoted a spokesperson for CS and other athletes in the same position as saying ‘It is talent, not testosterone’ - to explain their performance.

To which my reply is - well, if testosterone has no effect on your performance, why do you have a problem with reducing your levels?

I thought the decision today was that she had lost her case.
Which seemed right and correct.

Not that they were going to force her to take hormones, as your OP suggests. Which is a totally different thing.

There was a plonker professor of applied ethics Michael McNamee on Radio 5 Live earlier arguing that the whole thing was all an affront to Semenya's dignity . I guess he, like many other news commentators, continues to argue from the starting assumption that Semenya is female.

Googling seems to reveal that chromosome testing was abandoned in 1999. The reason it appears to have been deemed humiliating is that people were then disputing the results of blood tests with genital examinations!

Did I mention I think Sharron Davies is right? XX and XY sports, eligibility established with a blood test. End of discussion.

www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/magazine/the-humiliating-practice-of-sex-testing-female-athletes.html

Yup! It seems that Ms Newman needs to do much more research before embarrassing herself.

You’d have thought she might swat up on subjects before discussing them after missing Jordan Peterson’s open goals.

Did Cathy Newman once do a shitshow of a non-interview with a certain women’s officer as well?