Caster Semenya

[LilaJude]

Is anyone else outraged that sports bodies are suggesting forcing Caster Semenyer to take medication to reduce her testosterone levels?

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

How is this fair? We don’t handicap other athletes for having longer legs or more muscle mass. The nature of sport is that people with exceptional bodies triumph.

It’s like these sports governing bodies are saying ‘testosterone is a man thing, women aren’t allowed it.’ But Caster does have it, naturally, and it’s just part of who she is.

I just think it’s outrageous to force a woman to medicate just because a naturally occurring condition means her body doesn’t fit with what is conventionally seen as feminine / female.

If you are easily embarrassed, best not become an elite athlete, because a complete stranger will turn up at your door with a little bottle for you to pee into, and they will have you watch you do it, and that is really watch, at close range, to observe the liquid emerging from you.

MockerstheFeManist

Can't they just do a blood test?

Sako was CS'S trainer

I am at fault here ... I failed to mention the two Gold Medals that the magnificent woman who is Sharron Davies won two Gold Medals at Commonwealth level.

Unsurprisingly, the Commonwealth competitions excluded the testosterone-fuelled East German and Russian athletes at that time, while recognising that these athletes did not know they were testosterone fuelled and that this time in history was utterly corrupt in terms of female sports.

Can't they just do a blood test?

That would require training a large number of people being trained to do such tests. Anyone can watch an athlete pee in a bottle, it requires no specialist expertise.

Thanks MrsSpencer - I can see why CS would conceal the truth, but why would everyone else?

And I agree, the whole “humiliating” thing re: testing comes from the same stable as “literal violence” from saying men aren’t women.

I recall clearly back in the late 60s (even though I was only a kid), seeing the late, great athlete Lilian Board (for those too young to know, she died shockingly early, aged just 22, of bowel cancer) talking about what were then called "sex tests".

She said "You have to sort of strip..." Now, if they're looking for humiliating...

Wiki on Lilian Board, for those interested.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillian_Board

Money. It all comes down to money

And I should add that Semenyas's winning time was beaten by the men's Olympic record holder in 1912.

In summary, monumental gaslight since 2009 then?

My money has been on 5-ARD for a long time and still is.

I commented on a previous thread along the lines that Semenya will have known their chromosomal makeup for a long time and has decided to continue competing in that knowledge, whatever that knowledge might be. Didn't state more than that. Was screeched at by a handmaiden.

The South African federation will have known full well what they were doing. There's no way that the first time questions were asked was the 2009 world championships, and her status has been very much politicised in SA since.

In summary, monumental gaslight since 2009 then

Yes, but let’s not forget that gaslighting with regards to trans far pre dates 2009.

I commented on a previous thread along the lines that Semenya will have known their chromosomal makeup for a long time and has decided to continue competing in that knowledge

Yes .. CS will have known since 2009 although may have been "encouraged" by others involved with athletics who could make money at that time to continue.

More recently, CS knows the difference between lies and falsehoods; between right and wrong.

So, today, I think that CS knows the truth about biological status. XY = male.

I may have posted this 2014 study before:
Serum Androgen Levels in Elite Female Athletes

Prevalence of hyperandrogenic 46 XY DSD in our athletic population is approximately 7 per 1000, which is 140 times higher than expected in the general population.

Because, in this study, screening for SRY was not performed (we looked only for women that were hyperandrogenic), it is possible that the actual prevalence of 46 XY was even higher.
Moreover, our results concur with previous report (34) and the DSD (carrying the SRY gene) prevalence observed during the 1992 (7.5 per 1000) and the 1996 (2.67 per 1000) Olympic Games (28)

So basically, many of elite female athletes are actually men?

Sorry random 'of' there

That would require training a large number of people being trained to do such tests. Anyone can watch an athlete pee in a bottle, it requires no specialist expertise.

And the saliva test won't cut it?

So basically, many of elite female athletes are actually men?

Fuck.

Just watched that video - wow.

Caster is very comfortable and relaxed being Caster and no pretence at anything else.

Great on a personal level but rather surprising in the context of achievements made in women's athletics.

What the heck with all the deletions @MNHQ I’ve had two deleted and no email explanations.

RE: That higher rate than the general population.

Does that mean those athletes are getting better results at junior level and then go on to elite level.

Or and this is more sinister and would tie in with IAAF line, if the The IAAF have been politically under pressure from large country associations to turn a blind eye to it...

Have XY athletes for elite sport been deliberately sort and trained because they had better potential than an XX in women's sport.

That's a pretty big question.

However it's pretty clear what the South African position has been on this, and in an era of increasing science on performance in sport, it's perhaps what you would expect to be happening.