FGM and breast ironing. A different perspective.

[ixqik]

When we have different standards for different groups. What is the word for it?
fullcreamweb.blog/2019/02/10/binders-full-of-children/?fbclid=IwAR33nmHgxF5jLJk203lNKG5ljhXeEEzoLHfFsjvoUkZVZFaSQBLyfHRYU64

That's a great post.

Clicky link:

fullcreamweb.blog/2019/02/10/binders-full-of-children/?

I'm ashamed to say I had never thought about that before

To summarise the article (badly)

Black people do FGM and breast ironing
White people do transitioning

(90% of GIDS patients are white - why isn't it more evenly distributed?)

Excellent article.

My niece wears a binder and my sister gets liberal cookies.

very true, excellent article

brilliant analysis.

This is a terrible article.
This is utter privileged racist transphobic drivel.
It’s the epitome of whiteBS to say that FGM or breast-Ironing (a forced abuse) is any way remotely related to white kids exploring their gender identity; (in full privilege of choice & support).

It is just so painfully insulting, to even have these topics side by side.

The only acceptable comparible would be to compare the coerced or forced culture of augmentation for sex trafficked/ women in forced prostitution.
But even in this; for these white women will probably do so in a clinical setting; with a greater chance of accountability if they survive/escape.

Breast ironing & fgm is abuse.

Let’s not let our whiteness or privilege cloud our perception into thinking this could be compatible to kids exploring their gender in a safe clinical setting.

Please think about this.....

did you actually read the article?
children cannot consent to life changing surgery or treatment
they can't consent in the west, they can't consent in the majority world
I've thought about it thanks, took me less than 30 seconds, it is racist to decry child mutilation in a black culture and praise it when it's middle class white kids

Breast ironing & fgm is abuse.

Let’s not let our whiteness or privilege cloud our perception into thinking this could be compatible to kids exploring their gender in a safe clinical setting.

Jazz Jennings.

“did you actually read the article?
children cannot consent to life changing surgery or treatment
they can't consent in the west, they can't consent in the majority world
I've thought about it thanks, took me less than 30 seconds, it is racist to decry child mutilation in a black culture and praise it when it's middle class white kids“

White kid; “mummy I think I’m transgender, I’d like to see the dr to book extensive appointments to discuss and investigate this feeling in a safe, supported professional environment and possibly have treatment after this”
Kids mum- “yeah sure kid”

Mutilated African/Asian child;
“Mummy please don’t cut my genitalia off, in public, outside as part of a community cerimony in an unsafe & unclean setting; which will scar & traumatise me for life & also affect my sexual health for life”
Kids mother “we are doing it, we don’t have a choice”.

Do you know what consent is?

FYI: the kids in the west are not given surgery under 18. As adults they consent.

Boone's saying FGM and breast ironing aren't abuse.

We are saying that abuse is abuse if it happens in a rural village in a developing nation, in a house in Manchester or in a clinical setting.

Flattening healthy breast tissue is wrong. Removing all or part of children's genitals is wrong. It's just that we've (you've!) convinced ourselves that it's ok in a western context because 'gender'. End result still the same.

It's really really not ok. Wherever it happens and whatever cultural reasons we ascribe to it.

• Mummy please don’t cut my genitalia off, in public, outside as part of a community cerimony in an unsafe & unclean setting; which will scar & traumatise me for life & also affect my sexual health for life” Kids mother “we are doing it, we don’t have a choice”. *

When FGM was banned in Kenya by the colonial government and traditional practitioners arrested there was a movement whose name in Swahili translated as "we will circumcise ourselves" the girls took themselves off into the bush and cut each other. They saw it as an essential part of their culture and something being denied to them by the British invaders.

Kids don't always know or understand what is best for them. That's why they can't consent to sex and they can't consent to permanently damaging their bodies.

Jax In the US girls are getting mastectomies at 13 and hysterectomies at 16 (in Ohio they can get a radical hysterectomy without parental consent at 17). So in the West - I think Canada is the same - they are getting surgery while still children.

The parents you're talking about take their kids to the doctor as they're worried: small problem, doctors and therapists are affirmative only, so just agree with the child. This is not the informed consent of an adult, just the child. Parents have lost custody of their children because they won't affirm a gender transition.

So how exactly does this differ? In both cases the best interests of the child are put aside.

A child being white and gender non conforming does not magically bestow upon them the ability to understand or accept the risks of life long body alterations or serious medical complications. The fact that the implement used is not a hot stone but a nice new elastic chest binder purchased from a shop, or that the procedure is performed not at the kitchen table but in a bright clean operating theatre, does not make it any more acceptable to subject a child to low oxygen levels, broken ribs, perforated lungs, infection, abscess, or irreversible tissue damage. But we know, somehow we just know, that when those Africans do it to their girls, it’s awful. It’s different for us. Our children know who they are and what they want. When they damage their girls breasts with hot things it’s brutal and repressive; our modern binders and mastectomies help our children to be the best they can be.
Spot on.

JaxintheBlue
Both sets of parents think they're doing the right thing. Unless you assume that every Somalian mother hates her children, for example?
That's why practices like FGM are so hard to stamp out. It's not parents who hate their children, it's parents who had it done to them, minimised the suffering as part of their own coping mechanisms and who don't want their child shunned, judged or worse.
Children shouldn't be socially transitioning, taking any GnRH agonists, or having surgery to transition. None of it. Not a name change, not a binder. Let them wear what they like but don't bend reality for them, including making up new identities! And definitely no medical or surgical interventions for what is most likely something that is grown out of.

I think we should ask Dr's Christian and Haddock to adjudicate. I'm sure they can explain the cultural relativity.

1.) I am non-binary. I have been flux all my life... you can attempt to tell me what you think you know about my people.... but.... clearly without actually listening to us, instead preferring to shove your hate where the sun doesn’t shine... so do that. Good luck with the dark ages.

2.) you can not compare a white kid making an informed choice (while also suffering bullying and hate from people like you, whom can withdraw consent at anytime, and whom have healthcare & regulated support services.)
with fgm & breast ironing, which has been culturally forced, coerced & whom face shame, shunning or abuse should they not!

This is racist & transphobic.

Iused2BanOptimist .... seriously.

Well if I thought all the whitewashed ignorance... I certainly have now.
The only thing either of these grown men should be really asking ... what is the 12 year old girls opinion....
but no, they like to huff & puff about their patriarchal views... with the kid, ultimately; seen as a pawn; rather than respect towards her autonomy

my people you know you can only talk for yourself, right? You don't represent anyone, neither does anyone else on here.
I'm non-gravity. I identify as floating. You do you.

Do any of you.... actually know anybody who has experienced fgm or breast ironing?
Or is it your happy to appropriate it into the transphobic argument?

kid making an informed choice... whom can withdraw consent at anytime
I don't believe children can consent to anything that could affect the rest of their life, like GnRH agonists or binding or surgery. So in that respect it's similar. Neither child can consent.
If you start thinking about whether the transitioning child should be able to consent because they really really want to, you end up watering down the legal protections put in place that state children can't consent to sex, or marriage, or sign a contract, or get a finance deal.
A 16 year old might really really want an iPhone contract, for example, and might even be in a position to pay for it, but we agree that under 18s can't be held liable as they aren't adults. And the iPhone contract isn't going to cause brittle bones, or cracked ribs.

I love how when it suits it’s all ‘you lot with your transy stuff’
But when we stand up ... oh no, you can’t represent anyone.
I’m just non bullshit.
At least I don’t have to resort to attempting to be bitchy because all other argument fails....
yeah we’ll do us... fighting your transphobic hate.... float away then!

JaxintheBlue yes, in answer to your first question, I do. I don't understand your second question. I'm not transphobic.

you lot with your transy stuff
Never heard that before

float away then are you bullying me? Are you mocking my identity? Why would you come on here and do that?

Flying oink

Nobody is forcing these kids into the corset or breast binders, they can take them off at anytime. If they do something dumb or unsafe with it; they have help & support.
Btw.... have you even won one?

It’s just not compatible to auntie ironing your chest while you cry so you are not seen as sexually available to fit a male view of how a teenage girls should be.