FGM and breast ironing. A different perspective.

[ixqik]

When we have different standards for different groups. What is the word for it?
fullcreamweb.blog/2019/02/10/binders-full-of-children/?fbclid=IwAR33nmHgxF5jLJk203lNKG5ljhXeEEzoLHfFsjvoUkZVZFaSQBLyfHRYU64

Well, I'm in the US, and it's a genuine shitshow here. So many gender clinics, both private and academic, and most are operating under the "affirm and treat" mantra. The AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) came out with a position statement recently advocating for full medical/surgical transition. Rest assured, the "Dutch protocol" (use pituitary blockers and start cross sex hormones, later followed by surgery) is coming your way. I can't imagine the NHS will buck the current trend.

I'd genuinely like to understand what is different about your non-binariness to ours.

I'd like to know as well.

Jax, you sound really worked up about this.
Firstly it isn't conducive to discussion to call posters racist for no reason.
Which leads me on to...
Secondly you seem to have created a monolithic idea of fgm in your mind.
It isn't always the same.
In some places such as Egypt it often takes place in a clinical setting.

Fgmaware website has some good info and a video if you would like to educate yourself.

Another arena in which gender ideology has led to genital mutilation is the way teenage girls are pressured to get labiaplasty eg on Embarrassing Bodies, to look like women in pornography

www.fgmaware.org

Im really worked up about it....
because it is racist to compare a forced cultural abuse, with a discourse of white gender consent.
It’s called appropriation.

Forced Mutilation for people of Color is just not the same as liberated white kids exploring their identity.

To compare the two .... is lessening the abuse awareness or fight against FGM
(Which is just about mutilation; not gender or sex identity)

It’s a bit like comparing a black person forced into slavery...... and a white person simply exploring their career options.

Sex/ gender debate is an entirely separate thing to FGM or breast ironing.

I am aware of fgm aware thank you very much! I have worked with them!

I think they would be quite insulted too!

I'm a trainer on the issue of FGM and I'm happy to share information.

What do you currently feel are drivers for FGM if you don't think it's linked to gender?

Super.....
Your argument about coerced labiaplasty / body augmentation is comparable & valid.

We can draw links between the sexist society constantly bombarding young women with this coerced message that they must get surgery to be women, attractive or accepted.

But this is just not the same as a young person questioning their gender/ sex identity and independently seeking elective medical/professional/psychological guidance to safely explore this.

Forced Mutilation for people of Color is just not the same as liberated white kids exploring their identity

Which one is "white feminism"?

No, no super.... I DO believe that FGM is a gender based violence.
And it is totally on the same level as sexist rape culture that coerces people into augmentation.

But having vaginoplasty/ augmentation because you want to fit with an indoctrinated concept of your gender....

Is just not the same as a trans person changing their body to fit with who they really feel they are..... (often with more opposition than support)

Anyway, you didn't answer my question. When are you going to take your liberation and share it with the 'people of Color'?

Don't keep it to yourself! What are you?

I'd been thinking exactly this before I even read the article. I just don't often have the vocabulary to express it.

It's all abuse dressed up as benefitting the child.

Children believe anything they're told by trusted people.

That's how abuse happens.

Gender transition treatments are body modification in the most extreme.

You wouldn't let a 16-17 year old get their tong split, or dermal implants or tattoos. Even if the teen was insistent that look would make them their authentic self.

Peoples judgment has been clouded by wanting to be inclusive and understanding. But breast binding, surgery and cross sex hormones are not different to foot binding, breast ironing, circumsistion, tattoos, piercings ect. It's changing/damaging your body for no medically beneficial reason.

Those FGM sufferers NEED to learn about Non-binary!

So they can be like "liberated white kids"!

We can draw links between the sexist society constantly bombarding young women with this coerced message that they must get surgery to be women, attractive or accepted. But this is just not the same as a young person questioning their gender

I believe it is, there is anecdotal evidence that girls wanting to transition have a higher rate of having been subjected to abuse.
The sexist society is what they (and you) are trying to opt out of. How can you say that isn't an influence?

I have a small feeling ... the problem is you just don’t accept trans people....
and maybe you hate us so much; your willing to sink to any level, including appropriating gender violence towards people of colour.

Basically what your saying is ... to enable trans people to re-assign/ explore or change their gender or sex... is the same or equivalent as people being forced into gender based mutilation.

It’s very tunnelled & dangerous for all.

Your argument about coerced labiaplasty / body augmentation is comparable & valid. We can draw links between the sexist society constantly bombarding young women with this coerced message that they must get surgery to be women, attractive or accepted. But this is just not the same as a young person questioning their gender

What about the coerced message that if they are butch and attracted to girls they must be a boy? How is that less coercive than the message that labia should be neat?

JaxintheBlue
I don't hate trans people. And don't forget we were talking specifically about children. Who can't consent.

Hmmmm.

I really think your blindsighting yourselves to the concept of consent.... to suit your own binary trans hating narrative

I really really want the next "privileged white kids go troppo" BBC reality TV show to be a bunch of non-binary activists going around the world educating remote villagers etc.

I would just love it. Us GC women would eat humble pie when all the Pakistani school girls say they're not female any more and the men stop harassing them.

I am very uncomfortable with the language being used with regards to children seeking gender changes. "Independently" "choice" etc etc.

Children are not independent, and their life choices are restricted by Carl g adults for good reason.

When even GIDs clinicians are calling for a more cautious approach, you know things aren't quite right.

Children can't consent, regardless of which culture they are from or currently live in. I care about all of them and don't think their bodies should be changed in order to fit societal expectations.

*caring

Children are not adults. Even clever children. We don't allow them to make decisions that can affect them long term because they need protection.
A child looks to their parents, peers and wider society for cues on how to act, what is ok and what isn't, etc.
A young Indonesian girl who is raised to believe that if she isn't circumcised she is unclean is going to believe that is necessary. And she will go to a hospital and have a procedure done. It's lower risk than what happens with rusty knives and acacia thorns in other countries. Is it somehow ok now because a: the child is clear and emphatic that she wants it done and b: it's in a clinical setting?
No and no.
It is harmful, and reducing the risk by putting it in a clinical setting still doesn't make it morally right to carry out the procedure. As mentioned before, a child isn't legally allowed to have a tattoo, and they're carried out in sterile environments too.
If a young girl has had the weight of social expectations on her, the weight of "gender" on her, is actively encouraged to transition by minor internet celebrities and an online army of enablers, is she, as a child, able to make a free decision to have a double mastectomy at 13 (in the US, this is happening)?
Again I say no. She is a child, she can't consent, and she really should be educated about all the competing interests trying to influence her thinking and her self-image. Then as an adult, she can make her own decisions about most modification, transitioning, gender presentation, name changes, etc.
What's hateful about that?