Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FGM and breast ironing. A different perspective.

118 replies

ixqik · 11/02/2019 12:52

When we have different standards for different groups. What is the word for it?
fullcreamweb.blog/2019/02/10/binders-full-of-children/?fbclid=IwAR33nmHgxF5jLJk203lNKG5ljhXeEEzoLHfFsjvoUkZVZFaSQBLyfHRYU64

OP posts:
JaxintheBlue · 12/02/2019 10:16

Flying .... I think your tying yourself in knots and just getting further and further away from the point, while missing the glaringly obvious.

We can not compare young people exploring gender in supported clinical environments with FGM or breast ironing.
One is abhorrent my forced;
The other is a privileged exploration.

We can compare the relationship between coerced/ forced augmentation
(But even then... kids can’t get labiaplasty/ gender reassignment or a boob job)
So your comparing an abuse towards adults with an abuse towards children.

I don’t think it is a crime to enable safe spaces for children to investigate their identity. &/ voluntarily seek medical treatments for gender dysmorphia.

FlyingOink · 12/02/2019 10:18

privileged exploration
No a privileged exploration would be having the space to discuss these things, to learn about who she is, what makes her comfortable or uncomfortable, unpacking why that is and what influences it, etc.
Having irreversible medical or surgical intervention is not exploration, there isn't a route back to camp afterwards.

BigGoat · 12/02/2019 10:21

TRAs have often claimed that GC resistance to TRA ideology is white middle-class feminist gatekeeping. I've never found these suggestions convincing as they mostly came from the mouths of white men.

The OPs linked article further underscores why they would try to uphold this claim:

TRAs and their child victims (children who are not gender dysphoric but who have been convinced that they are) are disproportionately from wealthy white socio-economic groups.

Who else has unlimited access to WIFI and IPads to read up on how to trans online?

Who else could afford the meds and the surgery?

Who else would even have the head space to engage with the mind bending word salad of Queer ideology and its claims that biological sex does not exist.

Not the working-class and not the ethnic and minority groups who are most likely to be at the bottom of the earnings distribution.

The UK now rightly jails parents for FGM and has a campaign against breast ironing. Perhaps new legislation is required to broaden definitions to ensure all adults are held responsible and culpable for permanent mutilations to a child's body, whatever the cultural or ideological source of their rationale to inflict permanent damage.

FlyingOink · 12/02/2019 10:23

TRAs have often claimed that GC resistance to TRA ideology is white middle-class feminist gatekeeping.
Plus they would say that, wouldn't they, considering they completely ignore BAME women altogether.

RockyFlintstone · 12/02/2019 10:27

Do you know what consent is?

Do you?

Jax you sound like you know nothing about 'informed consent'.

I looked up Landon Richie, mentioned in that article. It appears that Landon is now 16 and had a double mastectomy in 2016, so would have been 13 or 14 years old.

Jax do you believe that 12/13/14 year olds can consent to sex? And if not, then why is it different for irreverible life changing drugs and surgeries?

Oh and I fucking hate the way it's called 'top surgery' as well. Talk about minimising.

BigGoat · 12/02/2019 10:30

Totally agree Flying, its simple divide and rule tactics, but if we are to win the arguments (which increasingly we are) we have to consider it in detail rather than just dismiss it (which is what TRAs do).

Its interesting also that they choose to ignore the existence of GC BAME feminists and feminist groups.

RockyFlintstone · 12/02/2019 10:31

These 'trans kids' often seem very 'worldly' and 'wise for their years' don't they? It's... Interesting.

Debaser12 · 12/02/2019 10:39

Children don't have the mental capacity to understand the long term consequences of their actions, no matter how articulate and intelligent they may be.

That is why there are laws in place based on age such as age of criminal responsibility, drinking age, tattoo age, elective surgery age.

A child can't consent to any body modification.

FlyingOink · 12/02/2019 10:43

These 'trans kids' often seem very 'worldly' and 'wise for their years' don't they? It's... Interesting
I think that might be partially down to peer group rejection (both ways!) as much as shady adult "allies".

CallMeWoman · 12/02/2019 10:44

Not the working-class and not the ethnic and minority groups who are most likely to be at the bottom of the earnings distribution.

Oh don't worry, Stonewall is fixing that little problem by offering a free suite of trainings to schools with 14% or more pupil premium in specifically targeted areas of the country. They'll soon teach children of all backgrounds to hate their bodies.

Rocky, the shared phraseology is quite obvious, if you know what you're looking at.

BigGoat · 12/02/2019 10:44

A child can't consent to any body modification, agreed, and I would add:

the child's parent or guardian who has allowed/signed off on permanent body modification should be held responsible for failing to protect the child's rights to reach adulthood free of permanent physical injury.

FlyingOink · 12/02/2019 10:46

CallMeWoman
Stonewall disgust me. They really do. They're so gung-ho, like a 100mph bull in a china shop. Even the slogan is ill-considered.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/02/2019 10:47

I read all the way to the end, hoping to learn how JaxintheBlue 's non binary is different to my non binary

I'm sitting in an IT department wearing jeans and a black jumper, planning a server upgrade.

It would be good to get terms defined JaxintheBlue....?

BigGoat · 12/02/2019 10:51

CallMeWoman ,

I hear you, but, I also expect that as the working-classes have been at the bottom of the pile for (in this country at least) generations, they tend to take most middle-class ideology with a good pinch of salt.

CallMeWoman · 12/02/2019 10:53

I hope so, BigGoat. We live in one of those areas.

OldCrone · 12/02/2019 11:09

I read all the way to the end, hoping to learn how JaxintheBlue 's non binary is different to my non binary

Just come back to this thread hoping for an answer to this. Could you come back and answer this question @JaxintheBlue ? There are quite a few of us who'd like to see your answer.

HumberElla · 12/02/2019 11:22

I would also like to hear what the definition of non binary is in this conversation. And does this apply to us all on here?
I do not identify with the gender stereotypes that have been forced upon me since birth. Because of my sex. I don’t identify with gender at all. Most of the forms I fill in for official documents and those for work do not apply to me because they ask for my gender.
I don’t believe humans can change sex.
I have spent much of my younger years being intensely uncomfortable in my own developing body. I was bullied because I didn’t conform to expectations related to my sex.
Where do People Like Me fit in?

Fazackerley · 12/02/2019 11:24

What's happened to Jazz Jennings is abusive and revolting. For that reason alone the article in the OP is valid.

StrangeLookingParasite · 12/02/2019 11:24

I am non-binary. I have been flux all my life... you can attempt to tell me what you think you know about my people

Do you honestly think you're the only one? How old are you? Younger than 25 would be my guess.

FlyingOink · 12/02/2019 11:25

I have spent much of my younger years being intensely uncomfortable in my own developing body. I was bullied because I didn’t conform to expectations related to my sex. Where do People Like Me fit in?

Ah sorry you're in the same category as me then. I think we're inconvenient to mention.

Although to be honest again most posters could identify with some or all of this. Which is even more inconvenient.

Fazackerley · 12/02/2019 11:27

Thank God I grew up in the 70s where young girls wore dungarees, jeans and jumpers, just like boys. I still wanted to be a boy though and rejected anything obviously girly. But clearly have no idea what it's like to reject gender norms Hmm

HumberElla · 12/02/2019 11:52

The only difference being Flying between people like me (us?) and the other (as yet undefined) non binary category is, that I’ve grown up to realise my sexed body is just my body. Normal, at times uncomfortable and plonked forever in one reproductive sex class. It’s society that’s the problem.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 12/02/2019 13:02

including appropriating gender violence towards people of colour.

The projection is a sight to behold.

Not all fgm is a scary 'aunty' holding down a screaming girl in the desert. Sometimes it's a happy girl surrounded by loving relatives in a doctor's office. Literal physical force isn't the only kind of force. The parallels are around cultural coercion through imposed gender roles. And those parallels are stark.

FlyingOink · 12/02/2019 13:09

I’ve grown up to realise my sexed body is just my body. Normal, at times uncomfortable and plonked forever in one reproductive sex class. It’s society that’s the problem
To be fair though, this is a bitter pill to swallow isn't it? I can see how being offered an opt-out can be enticing. I've certainly posted before that if I was 14 now I'd be trans. Does that mean I'm a closet trans person? No. It means I'm bloody lucky to have been given the time and space to come to my own conclusions. Although I was a gobby little shite at 14, and would probably be on here arguing from the other side. Grin

HumberElla · 12/02/2019 14:18

Yup! Me too Flying!

Swipe left for the next trending thread