Sky News just featured story appearing in tomorrow's Sunday Mail

[TheCatsServant]

Apparently a woman spent 8 hours in a cell/being interviewed by the police for a "transphobic" Tweet along the lines of TWAW. Can't bring myself to buy the Mail tomorrow to check the details, but it may be taken up by other papers.

Guess who?

Caroline, I see they are blaming you for The flying lawyer getting so many tweets, have they been tweeting the Pope again?

Pope

Sandy nails it again.

I’m still very new to this board and have been reading it a whole lot in the last few days (‘Break it down for me’ thread is a particular highlight - brilliant effort) but I’m a little confused. I don’t understand where the championing of cruddy cesspits such as the Daily Mail or Kiwi Farms (and Trump family interventions) come from or how they align with the overall objective of GC feminism. They may provide a desirable amplification of issues but in the long run nothing good will come from their association. They’re no allies of feminists, GC or otherwise.

I’m new, this isn’t intended to be confrontational, but it is making me a little bit less comfortable than I would otherwise be so thought I’d throw it out there and see what’s what. Please don’t bite, it’s a genuine question and comes from a good place.

They’re no allies of feminists

They don't need to be.

There's no aligning and no 'long run'.

We are not a group with a leader but hundreds of people all doing our own little thing.

MhairiV, you form your own boundaries.

Many people in the UK read the DM. At one point it was the most read online paper in the world. If you are unhappy with associating with DM readers, don't. However roughly half of them will be women, and they have as much right to be concerned as "feminists".

They’re no allies of feminists, GC or otherwise.

Neither is The Guardian or the BBC, but I bet you’d read both of those? Wake up. There are no feminist allies in mainstream media.

One of the users on the kiwi farms forum has started to use a photo of Stephanie Hayden as an avatar.

Worse than weird. I imagine she's been inundated with messages and emails and possibly phone calls, including some from the media. She must already have been under enormous stress and this will have made it worse. I hope she's OK. I know she's on here - is there a way of finding out how she is? Kate, can you let us know if there's anything we can do?

I mentioned yesterday that I’ve known Kate for over 20 years - same teenage peer group. I will pass this on to her now.

Kate is a very strong and feisty lady who despises bullies. She is well-supported by her friends and family. Her FB status yesterday was ‘What a day’ 😍

We do not represent a group or a movement it's all individuals.

She is well-supported by her friends and family. Her FB status yesterday was ‘What a day’ 😍

Neither is The Guardian or the BBC, but I bet you’d read both of those? Wake up. There are no feminist allies in mainstream media.

This. There are no voices pointing out the harms that can come to women by unquestioningly accepting the redefinition of the word "woman" to mean "whoever wants to be one". Debate is being stifled and dissent is not allowed, so the vast majority of people are unaware of what's happening as these changes are being pushed from the top down.

Anything that raises awareness of these issues and shines a light on this is doing something rare in this climate. Most organisations/publications/politial groups even those that profess to fight for women are, on this fundamental issue, unwilling to stand up for women. How can you fight for women's rights if you are unable to define one?

The Daily Mail and the Times are the only two mainstream media outlets that will cover the damage that transgender ideology is doing.

Nobody on here is championing the Daily Mail or Kiwi Farms.

Many ordinary people are entirely unaware of the damage that the trans lobby are doing so when a mainstream media outlet covers it, of course we will discuss it on here. Why wouldn't we? And it is precisely because of us talking on here that the Daily Mail is covering it. Mumsnet is quoted in the article.

150K shares of that article should give an indication of the growing unease about this subject among the general public.

We can't control what the Daily Mail does. If you are unhappy about their reporting, then I am sure that you can complain. Or not read.

I applaud the Daily Mail for tackling the issue and getting the message out. That is the full extent of my "championing".

We've been waiting for The Guardian to provide research into transgender ideology or even just hold a mirror up to it, but it has never happened. Because The Guardian could not give a toss about damage to women and girls. Clearly. The Guardian has become the 'cruddy cesspit'.

If we want to learn a lesson about all this, learn that one.

mobile.twitter.com/Rosbif65/status/1094896266956455936

Harrop and the flying lawyer tweets should be followed up be the press.

the law must be changed. People must be allowed to express an opinion without being arrested ffs..it just encourages litigious, hysterical types or those with an obvious agenda

yes and whilst this article is fresh, has anyone sent the Press screenshots of the threats sent to Caro?

championing of cruddy cesspits

If you're a woman in the UK in 2019, this description could equally be applied to the Grauniad or the Labour Party. Plus most third sector orgs, state institutions and corporations.

We're here for women. Left wing sexism is as much sexism as right wing sexism. We'll take our amplification where it comes.

Imagine this. You live in a small town and a prominent citizen is highly regarded by all. Except by one person in the town who most people dislike.

The disliked person finds out that the prominent citizen is actually up to things that will cause harm to women and children and starts telling people about the risks. Everyone says no one should listen because the disliked person is a bad person.

Do you:
a) decide not to listen because everyone says they're a bad person; or
b) listen because avoiding harm to women and children is the best course of action?

@Oxytocindeficient I do read both, from time to time, but the Beeb isn't exactly a beacon of integrity either.

The Daily Mail and other similar outlets couldn't care less about the rights of women and girls and their stories are framed to provoke hate and dogwhistle those with nasty little prejudices, not to highlight real nuanced and complex issues. That's why I'm uncomfortable I think. If people want the women of the general public to be made aware and to begin following these subjects it has to be packaged in a different way. It's counterproductive.

Feel free to start a campaign packaged in a different way.

What lottie said, what about the Spectator re harassment of Caro? James Kirkup might be interested.
I'm interested to see where Hayden will take this now with the Mail. More negative attention than the flying lawyer bargained for so surely they can see that another foot stomping move will make it worse, or maybe they can't. Suspect the latter. Narcissism in full swing.
This case disturbs me so much - using the law to undermine and threaten and the police being the active bullying arm, complicit with the worst of the TRA agenda. This dodgy ideology is like dry rot or rising damp, easy to track the visible stuff but it's the silent spread through the foundations that are doing real harm.

If you are waiting for The Guardian to approach this in a sensitive and nuanced way, you will be waiting decades.

Have you read The Times recently? Andrew Gilligan, Janice Turner and Lucy Bannerman have been excellent. Perhaps they are more to your taste. There is another thread on here about Andrew Gilligan's article on transgender wings in prisons. What do you think of his article?

@Popchyk and Thanks. To clarify, I wasn't suggesting people shouldn't discuss it, I was just interested in understanding how it all fits together. My own feelings on it are still forming, I'm probably still very idealistic about how the message should be shared and managed, and that's probably because I haven't yet seen the extent of the barriers or whatever.

FWIW, I don't expect much from The Guardian or The Labour Party either. @LangCleg

I suspect Steph will be issuing legal threats left, right and centre and playing victim.

I’’ve already been called obsessed except the difference is that a person with a criminal record for threatening to assault someone with a golf club has made a series of nasty legal threats and muttered about bursting into my church because I need ‘robust questioning’.

Of course I am watching my back. Interesting bait & switch tactic going on too. They are trying to claim that all the abuse they have had is centred around me. Because obviously 150k shares of the Mail article and 6.5k RTs from Trump Jr, prompting people to respond, all my fault.

Also, just so it’s here, while I have seen lots of misgendering, there are no threats of violence on Stephanie’s TL. Only a text from a person calling them evil.

What do you want, then, Mhairi? Silence because no outlet meets your purity test?