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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Sky News just featured story appearing in tomorrow's Sunday Mail

675 replies

TheCatsServant · 09/02/2019 23:13

Apparently a woman spent 8 hours in a cell/being interviewed by the police for a "transphobic" Tweet along the lines of TWAW. Can't bring myself to buy the Mail tomorrow to check the details, but it may be taken up by other papers.

OP posts:
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TimeLady · 11/02/2019 07:26

DM article has 141K shares right now.

WhatHaveYou · 11/02/2019 07:26

Well done "Testicles and penis" on the Today programme.

Bowlofbabelfish · 11/02/2019 07:46

Oh dear oh dear. The DM have very deep pockets, Steph. Are you sure?

Bowlofbabelfish · 11/02/2019 07:48

And frankly, even if the country were awash with money and the police had nothing to do, this would still be wrong.

WeAreGerbil · 11/02/2019 08:00

Dione the one time I spent a few hours in a cell I was grateful for a lie down! It was the lack of access to a fridge that spoiled it for me.

TimeLady · 11/02/2019 08:20

IUsed2BanOptomist
Stephanie will be even crosser if they look at Kiwi farms.

Presumably you mean the profile pic one of the KF members is using? Steph should be even more worried if they decide that Steph warrants a LOLCOW thread of their own.

Iused2BanOptimist · 11/02/2019 08:24

TimeLady what does the expression "in the proving grounds" mean? I assume awaiting approval or perhaps gathering enough information to kick off with a bang?
Keep watching and await with interest seems to be the appropriate action here. Wink

Ereshkigal · 11/02/2019 08:28

You’re telling me I’m naïve when I’m talking about something I do literally every day?

In every police station in the country is that? Hmm

FlyingOink · 11/02/2019 08:28

BoJo article in full

If you have wondered what it takes to get arrested these days then let me tell you about the fate of Kate Scottow, 38, a mother of two from Hitchin in Hertfordshire. On December 1 last year three police officers – three – came to her home and arrested her in front of her kids, one of whom is still a baby. They took her to the local nick and if reports are to be believed – and the Hertfordshire police have certainly not contradicted them – they detained her for seven hours in the cells. They confiscated her laptop and her mobile phone, neither of which has been returned. And what was her crime? She is said to have insulted a transgender woman. She called her a man. Over the internet. On Twitter.

Now I hold no particular brief for Kate Scottow. It appears that, like many other people on Twitter, she is unbridled in her tongue. It would seem, furthermore, that her attitude towards transgender people is antediluvian and offensive – but if, and only if, you can be bothered to read her tweets, and if and only if you can be bothered to take offence.

When they read the story of Kate Scottow, I believe most people would indeed be outraged, but not primarily at the content of her tweets. Of course we care for anyone whose feelings are bruised, but we aren’t focussing on that. We are thinking about the three police officers, the custody suite that was occupied for seven hours, the witness statements, the court proceedings – the considerable expenditure of public money on what would seem to be a silly (if nasty) Twitter spat; and we think about that peculiar abuse of manpower and police facilities when we learn that in the last couple of days the NHS has reported a 54 per cent increase in stabbings, and when there seems to be a new and tragic incident of knife crime reported virtually every day.

Is this really the right way to fight crime? Is this what our brave police officers signed up to do? Are you really telling me that it is a sensible ordering of priorities to round up Twitter-borne transphobes and chuck them in the clink, when violence on the streets would seem to be getting out of control?

I remember the last time we had a knife crime epidemic in this country – ten years ago or more; and I remember how the police beat the problem – at least in London. Then as now, the news was appalling, and day after day we would agonise in City Hall about what was going wrong, and what levers we could possibly use.Together with my then deputy mayor Kit Malthouse – he of the excellent memorandum – we heard experts offer every diagnosis that you could imagine.

Some people said that it was all about deprivation and the closure of youth centres, and the often-heard complaint that “kids don’t have anything else to do”. Some said it was all about family breakdown and the absence of male role models, and a consequent lack of self esteem. The gangs provided a kind of pseudo-family, a sense of security and hierarchy that these young people – mainly but not entirely male – otherwise lacked. There was a lot of evidence that the violence of the gangs was to do with drugs, and postcode based fights over territory. Some went so far as to suggest that kids could somehow be excused for carrying a knife, on the grounds that the streets were so dangerous that they really had no choice but to defend themselves.

And based on these diagnoses all sorts of worthy solutions were proposed, in the form of “diversions” from crime. We sponsored youth programmes and outreach groups; we paid for ping-pong parlours and music rooms. We set up mentoring programmes and volunteering campaigns and we had a special unit in Feltham designed to help turn around young offenders and stop them returning to crime.

I am sure that all these interventions did at least some good, but as we wrestled with the crisis I remember coming suddenly to a cynical conclusion about knife crime, and what it was that really motivated a kid to carry a knife. It wasn’t fear; it wasn’t necessity. I am afraid that after talking to endless gang leaders and members I came to the conclusion that the strongest driver in the knife epidemic was really a perverted sense of fashion.

I decided that carrying a knife in defiance of the authorities was partly seen as a sign of status, of cool. It was intended to convey a sense of menace and machismo, and it seemed to us that young people who were carrying a bladed weapon were making a cynical calculation that they would get away with it – because the police would never catch them.

We had to change that calculation, to change the balance of risk, at least in their imagination. That was why the Metropolitan Police launched a vast and systematic programme of stop and search, called Operation Blunt Two; and though it was certainly controversial at the time, and though there was some Left-wing protest, the results were very striking. The police took 11,000 knives off the streets. It became clear to those who were used to carrying a knife – or who might be tempted to carry one – that the balance of risk had palpably changed. After a couple of years of effort there had been a transformation – and for several years running there were fewer than 100 murders a year in London.

I am not for a minute suggesting that stop and search was solely responsible for this policing success – but it was certainly a factor. It worked partly because the police were given the explicit assurance that provided they were polite, they would have every possible political support and encouragement to do their frisking.

And it worked because we put the police on the streets where they could do the job they want to do; and it should be obvious that you can’t police properly if officers are endlessly filling custody suites with 38 year old mums whose crime is to have caused needless offence on Twitter. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this internet feud, we are wasting too much time and resource on cases like this.

hackmum · 11/02/2019 08:31

I loved Caro's saying: "The devil always overplays his hand."

It's very entertaining to watch this backfire on Steph. I hope journalists will now do some digging. One thing that's clear from some comments on social media and from Boris Johnson's story is that some people still buy into the "mean transphobes" story and don't realise what a nasty piece of work Steph is.

Caro - if you're still around - are you going to contact the Mail on Sunday reporter with details of the intimidation you've been subjected to? I don't think the paper will want to let this lie. 140,000 shares is way ahead of any other story they ran yesterday.

FlyingOink · 11/02/2019 08:31

So his article isn't really about this case at all, it's just a "when I was Mayor" story.

TimeLady · 11/02/2019 08:34

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Bowlofbabelfish · 11/02/2019 08:36

Steph has their own thread now.

Rummages for popcorn...

TimeLady · 11/02/2019 08:37

So his article isn't really about this case at all, it's just a "when I was Mayor" story.

It stops it being a 'trans' story and becomes a 'police/free speech' story, which should get the message resonating with a wider audience.

TimeLady · 11/02/2019 08:42

Steph has their own thread now.

Really? I couldn't find it.

Ah wait....

Hayden thread up in Proving Grounds, thanks to Gengar.

I think maybe you have to be logged in to read it.

Save us some popcorn, Bowl

Needmoresleep · 11/02/2019 08:53

Kate was not using her real name on Twitter. The DM article quoted court papers so did not speculate on her or the nature of her tweets., just suggest thst the police response was not proprtionate.

Boris is doing something different. It would seem, furthermore, that her attitude towards transgender people is antediluvian and offensive is not acceptable. My understanding is that Kate questioned whether someone with a penis was a woman. As far as I know a majority share that view. Kate was effectively doxxed by the DM when they reported court details but Boris' speculation goes to far.

I woukd be interested in what lawyers on this board think.

And Flowers for Kate. Yesterday must have been weird.

nauticant · 11/02/2019 09:00

They confiscated her laptop and her mobile phone, neither of which has been returned. - isn't this no longer true?

Are you really telling me that it is a sensible ordering of priorities to round up Twitter-borne transphobes and chuck them in the clink - unless Kate is a transphobe Johnson has libelled her.

Conclusions:
Johnson is still willing to make stuff up/not bother with fact checking.
He will twist anything to suit his own agenda.
He has a massive ego.

WhatHaveYou · 11/02/2019 09:01

Are you really telling me that it is a sensible ordering of priorities to round up Twitter-borne transphobes and chuck them in the clink - unless Kate is a transphobe Johnson has libelled her.

He has.

Hamster00 · 11/02/2019 09:06

Seems the story has been picked up in the Metro this morning too metro.co.uk/2019/02/11/mum-locked-seven-hours-referring-trans-woman-man-twitter-8519251/

and in the Sun very late last night
www.thesun.co.uk/news/8397760/mum-calls-trans-woman-man-arrested-kids/

Ereshkigal · 11/02/2019 09:11

Boris is utterly clueless about this issue.

hackmum · 11/02/2019 09:12

Yesterday must have been weird.

Worse than weird. I imagine she's been inundated with messages and emails and possibly phone calls, including some from the media. She must already have been under enormous stress and this will have made it worse. I hope she's OK. I know she's on here - is there a way of finding out how she is? Kate, can you let us know if there's anything we can do?

And the Boris Johnson article is a disgrace. He hasn't bothered, for his enormous £250k salary, to do the most cursory background checking into Steph Hayden, and he has libelled Kate. The crap about how he dealt with knife crime when he was mayor is self-aggrandising and nothing to do with the story.

Carowiththegoodhair · 11/02/2019 09:23

Donald Trump Junior has retweeted the story!

Needmoresleep · 11/02/2019 09:24

I find it shocking. Rich powerful and ambitious man using his platform to denigrate "an ordinary" woman and mum of two.

There is nothing to suggest that either the Mail or the Telegraphy have seen the Tweets. Just what has gone to the court.

If any lurking journalist can provide the bones of what might be put to the PCC, and whether Kate or anyone can do it, that might be useful. There is a different level between what an individual like Steph might accuse Kate of, and the question of how the police should have responded, to a well-known senior politician says. It is not right.

Bowlofbabelfish · 11/02/2019 09:27

It would seem, furthermore, that her attitude towards transgender people is antediluvian and offensive is not acceptable. My understanding is that Kate questioned whether someone with a penis was a woman.

Pre or post flood, women have never had penises.

Or maybe the ladydicks were just too fragile and trembling to make it to the ark in time?