Transgender child at DD’s school. Please help me write to the head?

[Comeymemo]

DD attends an independent co-Ed British international school. We are in a jurisdiction that provides for protection against sex discrimination, including in education. This country has no protection against discrimination on the basis of gender, and only recognises transgender persons when the person has undergone full reassignment surgery (including sterilisation). In other words, there is no right to self gender identification where we live.

The school is split in houses, all of which are either all boys or all girls. The school has a mix of boarders and non boarders.

We recently received a letter from the head, saying that a male pupil will be moving to a girl’s house after half term as the pupil is transgender. The letter states that the pupil will use the unisex accessible toilet including to undress (eg for sports). The letter does not state if the pupil is a boarder.

I want to write to the school outlining my concerns and would welcome any help.

The areas where I would like to get reassurance are:

• confirmation that the pupil will not be allowed to compete against girls or to be in girls’ teams for any sports
• confirmation that the pupil will not be allowed to play female parts in any dramatic productions (DD is into sports and drama and I don’t think it fair that female roles should be given to boys, as male parts are never available to girls)
• confirmation that the school will never allow the pupil to board in a girls’ house or to have access to girls’ boarding houses
• confirmation that girls will never be allowed or expected to share a bedroom with the pupil on any overnight trip
• confirmation that the school are not altering their records to reflect the pupil’s so-called self-ID, so that the pupil remains listed as male
• confirmation that the pupil is not taking the place of any girl on any awards or recognition list, such as for school prefect, scholarships or prizes that are only available to girls.
• would it be reasonable to request that DD is not in the same house as that pupil?

At this stage I don’t want to engage into a broader debate with the school over human rights, feminist theory or GC theory, so I’m trying to stay as down to earth as possible and seek clarification on practical areas.

Is there anything else you can think of that would be relevant in this context? Please feel free to direct me to other threads if this has been done before.

Many thanks 🙏

OK @rocky do you believe gay males are a risk to females?

I have skimmed this thread.

It seems to me there are two or three strands to the OP's concerns that need to be separated out in any approach to the school. I would approach them as 'policy' issues with some specific examples.

A) Safeguarding. Where things are currently separated out by sex for a safeguarding reason, these should continue. This includes accommodation, changing, sport

B) Unnecessary Gender Divides
Where school currently separates by sex for no strong reason (e.g. if girls did sewing and boys woodwork), then this should be reviewed and altered.
(One thing I have struggled with is where there are prizes/roles, one for boys and one for girls. The school needs to think why they do that. Is it to ensure equal role models? What message would it send if the 'best' girl for something is male bodied?)
[Basically this section is about removing the boy/girl issues wherever possible]

C) Stereotyping
Where school appears to actively stereotype the sexes/genders then this should be reviewed and more balanced approaches taken. e.g. princesses for girls, superheroes for boys. Similarly where they permit stereotypes to exist e.g. science is for boys, they need to actively counter it.
[This section is about setting an atmosphere were sex/gender is not forced, and anyone can do anything]

We have a similar situation at my DD's day school. I have discussed with DD that 'no you can't change sex, but if X is happier presenting as a girl then as long as there aren't any safeguarding/privacy issues for the girls it isn't our issue to bother with'.

but what are the chances that this 'boy' who feels like a girl is interested sexually in girls? I understand the safeguarding surrounding boys. But isn't he far more likely to be a gay boy If he identifies as a girl? I'm not saying it's impossible but I do think it's unlikely.

Actually it seems that way more transgirls/women identify as 'lesbians'. It's very very common.

@ivegonegreyfindingausername a typical boy that has gone through puberty will be physically stronger than a typical girl of the same height. This is to do with physiological differences, nothing to do with the probability that they might work out.

This is one of the reasons that contact sports are done in single sex groups at this age.

but what are the chances that this 'boy' who feels like a girl is interested sexually in girls? I understand the safeguarding surrounding boys. But isn't he far more likely to be a gay boy If he identifies as a girl? I'm not saying it's impossible but I do think it's unlikely.

Do you understand what 'safeguarding' means? It's not about 'I think it's unlikely'.

OK @rocky do you believe gay males are a risk to females?

Do we let gay males into female changing rooms or female prisons? Do you think that we should?

Ffs, I've not RTFT but I hope the OP has softened slightly slightly over the course of the thread

Last post is all about the concern of safeguarding, but I'm still a bit as to how excluding the child from playing certain parts in drama has to do with that.
which was one of the original points.

@Glitterstick

Theatres have had males playing female parts since forever.

Thank you. I am aware that women’s contribution to the arts have long been overlooked and that we have a lot fewer opportunities than men. I’m glad we can agree on this.

do you believe gay males are a risk to females?

What has their sexuality got to do with it? Again, all males are treated as a potential risk. All.

You are asking the head to exclude the child from sports and drama.

No, they’re not. They’re asking if the usual safeguarding and other rules or policies with respect to biological sex, will be observed. Which is entirely reasonable.

do you believe gay males are a risk to females?

and in addition, girls deserve privacy from boys

as Datun says, I'm damn sure my father in law is not a threat to me, but I don't want to get undressed in front of him

what should girls have to get undressed in front of someone who up until recently they knew as a boy?

Thank you. I am aware that women’s contribution to the arts have long been overlooked and that we have a lot fewer opportunities than men. I’m glad we can agree on this.

I am not agreeing with you. To be clear. That you would exclude children at school from taking part in school plays even when there is nothing wrong with males doing female parts (using the word male because that's clearly what you're saying about this child)
Least your post makes it glaringly clear - it's not just about safeguarding concerns, is it? You just seem to want to exclude.
Your last post is sickening, and for those reading I'm NOT agreeing with you.

we seem to be in a society where lots of female rights (rights to single sex spaces, the right to privacy, rights to single sex sports) only really exist on the say so of males and that all of it actually depends on how males feel.

^^This, and it's deeply upsetting.

GlitterStick

Theatres have had males playing female parts since forever.

Why do you think that was? Why do you think most doctors were male? Why do you think most lawyers were male? Why do you think women couldn't own property? Why do you think women couldn't vote? Do you actually know nothing about female history?

Oh I forgot, the answer was upthread. Ladybrain, not logical like men are.

limpbizkit according to www.ustranssurvey.org/ 81% of transwomen (so natal makes who identify as women) describe themselves as lesbian, bisexual, "pan sexual" or queer. In other words attracted to women, either exclusively or as well as men and people who identify as anything else.

I'm going to go forward identifying myself as a jelly belly asteroid will I still be allowed to go to the womens only swim? Because obviously I'm not an asteroid and if I identify like this it might automatically mean that I want to be in the female changing rooms and commit a crime that no one thought I was capable of when I identified as female..... But my choice is to be an asteroid not a criminal.

I'm presuming you're a woman ivegonegreyfindingausername? using the old fashioned 'adult human female' definition?

in which case go forth and enjoy your women's only swim

what you are is important, not what you identify as

@rocky no we don't let gay males into female changing rooms. They're sexually interested in men. Is it right that they are let into spaces where they can potentially prey on males? Swings and roundabouts. Do open changing facilities still exist? Aren't most changing areas cubicled?

@blueskies thankyou for your research example. As with any research - source? Bias? Who conducted it? Do they have an agenda? I'm struggling to believe most boys that want to be girls are sexually interested in girls. I'm not saying you or the research is wrong but I wonder how that compares to other research. Whether the statistics differ. I genuinely am shocked by it.

@rocky no we don't let gay males into female changing rooms.

Do you think we should? If not, why not?

excluding the child from playing certain parts in drama has to do with that.

Most people on here felt that that particular point was not the issue she should be focussing on. But you seem to think it's the most important part of her post from the way you keep coming back to it. Why is that?

The real issue here, Glitter, is safeguarding. Do you understand what that means?

Please edit your list to concerns where sex actually matters. Changing rooms, sleeping quarters, select physical activities are all things where sex segregation matters.

There are also carve-outs for female students designed to compensate for societal discrimination. Things like having separate male and female awards for best math student, winner of the science fair etc. those should be protected for females or if protection is no longer warranted, the sex segregation can be dropped entirely.

limpbizkit part of your issue is you don’t understand much about sexual assault and that you think it’s the only form of assault aex segregation is minimising the risk of. Sexuality is entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

I have a son. Am I offended that he isn’t allowed into girls’ changing rooms/loos, and take that as an accusation that he is a potential predator? I don’t because we segregate by sex based on risks that men as a class pose to women.

If he said he was now a girl/woman, nothing has changed with respect to what sex class he belongs to. The risk hasn’t changed but neither is it personal.

I'm struggling to believe most boys that want to be girls are sexually interested in girls.

I might struggle to believe that someone who devotes their whole life to raising money for charity might actually have been abusing vulnerable people the whole time. Or that someone who enters the priesthood and is a 'man of God' is actually raping young boys.

Luckily we don't do safeguarding on what we 'struggle to believe' but instead on facts. And the facts are that 98% of sexual offences are committed by males. MTF trans people are males, and you haven't yet answered the question of when they come out of the risk category of male and into the category of female.

What you 'struggle to believe' is irrelevant.