I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

I think the availability and the violence of porn, and the part technology plays in this, are some of the most damaging things happening to young people today. I honestly don’t understand why parents are not up in arms about it. I’m really not looking forward to this side of parenting over the next decade.

Weetabix. Something like 96% of violent crime is committed by men. Why are you so keen to make it look as if that’s not the case? I don’t understand your motivation at all.

I have no problem with statements of fact.

I have problems with people making things up like the statement that said that women only kill men to escape abuse.

I even asked the poster to clarify if she meant that applied to all of the murders and she said yes.

Post the facts. Then we can discuss the facts. Why post lies and then get the hump if you are called out?

In general I agree with weetabix.
I honestly think a lot of people read statements like "96% of violent crime is commited by men" and read it as "96% of men commit violent crime".

I missed that post and I disagree with it - I don’t think that every time a woman murders it is to escape a man’s control.

ScipioAfricanus

Thank you.

How do you not know that by holding these views you aren't creating a self fulfilling prophecy?
Because we don't have that much influence over them! If we did this would be fixed by now.

How can you, from your experience of 10,20 even 30 men out of 30 million, then say that all men or most men are like this?
Do you know how surveys work? They don't ask everyone in the UK the same questions, you know. You can make assumptions based on the men you've met. Unless you're implying there are patches of wrong'uns and patches of lovely men?

Really, deydo? I don’t think it’s a difficult difference to grasp and if I did think that 96% of men committed violent crime I wouldn’t have risked marrying one or giving birth to one.

No one knows what percentage of men are violent, its not the point.
Violence can be random and take place anywhere. On the street, in the workplace, in the home.

Women are told to take precautions against violence. By the police. So lets stop pretending male violence towards women is not a problem and has no consequences.

If I'd been badly bitten 3 times by random dogs, and were sitting on bus next to a growling dog, no one would be surprised by my statement that I don't like dogs and are wary around them.

Hey, user, not to invalidate your lived experience or anything but NADALT.

But user, NADALT!

Oh I did that too slow!

So can I just check? We can never discuss male violence - our experiences and feelings about it - until we can prove that every single man in the world is bad and every single woman is perfect?

Does that have to be those who are alive now or all men and women who have ever existed? Just so I can be sure of your position.

Luckily we don’t apply that logic to cancer.

“ I’m sorry Mr WeetabixandShreddies, we can’t treat your bowel cancer because Not All Men Have It, you are wrong to say its an issue”.

**When we say 'women' and 'men' in these discussions we are talking about classes, not absolutes.
I don't think people really struggle with the concept of classes as much as they pretend, especially since this is explained at least once every discussion.

^^Yep.

I honestly think a lot of people read statements like "96% of violent crime is commited by men" and read it as "96% of men commit violent crime"

Really, really no.

I would certainly not want a woman who does not like men teaching my son's, just as I would not like a misogynist teaching my daughter.

I think if you are not in a position where your prejudice can have a negative consequences then there is not much to be said surely ?

No one is forcing you have a boyfriend or husband or to hang out with males. Working with them you must be professional, but on your personal life surely it's pretty easy to avoid men ? Lots of men avoid women.

just come on this thread so sorry for being late: literally watching the same two guys who always disrupt the peace in this study area as I read your comment..every single time I am here they do the same thing.... because everyone else has to be disturbed so they can discuss the football. This is 'entitlement' in the flesh and also oddly enough a 'loser mentality' in one and the same incident. I feel sorry for them.

As for stop using prostitutes and viewing porn - yeah. Decent men don't do that any way.
All men watch porn. All of them. As for prostitutes, it depends largely on availability. In the UK 7% of men have, in Germany it's 80% have been to a brothel.

"Not my Nigel"
Yes, your Nigel.

I don’t think misogyny is recognised enough. It’s not always in-your-face and obvious.
It’s rife in medicine, in business, in parenting, in education, in marriages, in advertising, pretty much everywhere around is covered in a layer of misogyny. It’s too ingrained in society to be able to see it objectively.

All men watch porn, really?
And then you reiterate you do really mean all.
OK then.

I don’t think all men do porn, but most of them, including many who swear blind they don’t.

Maybe have a look at Joanne Dennehy ' s crimes TwitterLovesMAPs and then come back and tell us that all women murderers do it to escape their abusers.

Again, it’s a false equivalence and ‘whataboutery’.

Maybe once every couple of decades we’ll see a bona fide female psychopath like Aileen Wuornos, Lizzie Borden, or Joanna Dennehey. But they are outliers and anomalies.

For every Joanna Dennehey, there are 1,000s of male murderers. Of women and men.

yes, porn is awfully profitable for something that's only consumed by this small number of not very nice men

Could someone explain what's wrong with just avoiding men and not having relationships with them ? Has it already been explained and I missed it ? Sorry if so.

Just avoiding men doesn’t mean you can avoid the system that puts them in a position of power.
Misogyny/patriarchy is everywhere.

If the only tool you have is a hammer...

"96% of violent crime is commited by men" and read it as "96% of men commit violent crime"

Of all the violent crime committed only 4% is committed by women.

Nearly all, NEARLY ALL violent crime is committed by men.

And you think it’s a 50:50 problem because Joanna Dennehey was a once-in-a-lifetime psychopath?