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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A reminder: What we did was brilliant. Is brilliant.

874 replies

lisamuggeridge · 28/01/2019 13:46

What we did was amazing. We pulled the GUardian, Parliament, the House of Lords, the media, out of a position they were determined to have, we changed the debate, we showed women were a political force, we acted, all over the country we acted. In different ways. We were bound by the GRA review and as soon as that was done it was evident that power relations had recreated within a social movement. Yes some people by reflex did things that they would always have done. Now we get to relearn and renegotiate power relations by saying we dont play the way media tribalists did. Whatever fall outs there have been were always going to hapen but we still did that. Thats why htis board is permanently monitored by nutcases and acually the power we demonstrated is directly at the root of the toxic fallouts and is a mark of success in itself. Political spectrum reforming within this movement is alright, but it probably pays to remember how amazing what we achieved was and letting that guide what we can achieve., We changed the conversation we can keep doing that. Easily. By having the conversation we want and not bowing to social media tribalism that hides all sorts of nasties and existing political orgs. And learning in a way they cant.

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 15:35

Julie remains incredibly good-humoured about the whole thing - despite being continuously targeted for about the last 12+ years. I'm in awe of her resilience.

Telegraph 'Not all menstruators are women? This madness has to stop'
JULIE BINDEL
21 JANUARY 2019
(extract)
Some years ago, I wrote about a store called Transformations in London, where men who wished to dress as women could shop. Not only were there corsets, wigs and ball gowns on display, but also pills that promised to ‘produce the symptoms of pre-menstrual tension’.

The idea that anyone would want to feel depressed, bloated and sore flummoxed me at first, until I realised that the pills would merely act as a placebo in order to add a little frisson to the experience of cross-dressing. How long ago this seems. (continues)

concludes:
There is even a view that transgender women (biological men) should be able to breastfeed babies, and a call to refer to pregnant women as “pregnant people”. Women’s hard-won rights are being eroded by sexist men telling us they understand what it is to be women - and a number of young feminists are swallowing it.

As someone who has long been a target of vicious bullying from the trans lobby, I understand only too well why some young feminists are too scared to challenge this Orwellian madness.

I stand firm in my view that the extreme end of transgender ideology is pure misogyny, promoted for the benefit of men. And I have been accused of ‘hate crime’, 'bigotry' and no-platformed from a number of universities and other public venues by the blue-fringed student brigade.

At the same time, I receive emails and private messages every week from female students and other young women, telling me that they agree with me.

These young women need our help. Women is not an offensive term. We should NEVER be reduced to a bodily function. Men do not get periods, and neither do trans women. Shouldn’t this be bleeding obvious?"

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/not-menstruators-women-madness-has-stop/

womanformallyknownaswoman · 29/01/2019 15:35

Start another one yourself.

This is the most telling tactic - what they don't do.

They don't start another thread about the topic they supposedly want to discuss.
They don't raise funds and open centres for "trans" individuals
etc etc

They try to colonise women's existing spaces and erase the original inhabitants - like all good colonialists

Politelygiveszerofucks · 29/01/2019 15:35

Some non-factual and defamatory claims are more equal than others GeeWhizz

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 15:36

Indeed, much like women were appropriating the word "woman" by putting it on posters, as our friend Harrop kindly explained.

(Nods seriously)

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/01/2019 15:37

agree that Julie is amazing. I believe she is the only person named by the NUS no platforming rules

proportionate eh?

my main takeaway from watching Fae and the Dutchman was 'crocheted waistcoats - wtf?'

but i'm not as smart as the rest of you

exLtEveDallas · 29/01/2019 15:37

Julie is fabulous, a wonderful feminist who knows her own mind. She's pretty funny too, they was she looks at men people being bonkers and says it all with just a look. She's got that "you are completely crazy but I'll let you show yourself up" look down to a tee Grin

Politelygiveszerofucks · 29/01/2019 15:38

The thread was “didn’t we do well?”

The response is no, actually, you didn’t. Your own behaviour has been abysmal.

We are very much still on point.

ToeToToe · 29/01/2019 15:39

As long as we're not engaging in bullying another woman, we'll talk about who we want, geeewhizz.

Bindel is perfectly relevant on a "what we did was brilliant" thread - Bindel is part of the "we".

womanformallyknownaswoman · 29/01/2019 15:39

Magdalen

I hope she is well
I miss her

THIS!!

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 15:39

IIRC correctly we're not allowed to discuss the fashion choices of TRAs on account of not in the spirit, etc. Tempting as it is. On a fashion thread maybe?

Reminded me of the toilet roll covers my granny used to have...

Oxytocindeficient · 29/01/2019 15:40

Well, I don’t think we can celebrate all the good work done recently without taking another look at this marvellous interview with Posie Parker and Dr Harrop. She was brilliant and he was exposed for the woman-hater and entitled man he is. Another who thinks he can tell women what they can or can’t say:

exLtEveDallas · 29/01/2019 15:43

Do you mean Peter Andrew Nolan, nightwitch? The kiwifarms thread on him is enlightening, and disturbing.

littlbrowndog · 29/01/2019 15:44

I watche that live
Was cracking
Posie owned the haddock live on telly

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 15:45

Still the best screencap of all time, Mr Crazyeyes versus Posie's scornful "you ridiculous little man" face.

Politelygiveszerofucks · 29/01/2019 15:45

Hmm. Bindel who pulled the “I refuse to engage with David Davis” stunt, when he was the only one of 650 MPs willing to stick his neck on the line and risk his political career.

Bindel of “stop being mean to Challenor because of their dad, it’s nothing to do with them” fame.

Hmm
LangCleg · 29/01/2019 15:45

his attempt to represent himself in court was the best comedy of the decade

It was a thing of beauty!

Almost as though blokes don't know when to stop before fucking it up entirely, eh?

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 15:47

Just can't help themselves...

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/01/2019 15:47

I think if we're talking about favourite moments, I'm going to go with this

it was both funny and felt like a turning point. well done man friday - your wit and activism was greatly appreciated chaps

A reminder: What we did was brilliant. Is brilliant.
Datun · 29/01/2019 15:47

It's amazing how often one can include that harrop clip.

I love seeing Posie getting him to say she is appropriating the word woman.

Posting the dictionary definition of the word women, standing back and letting Harrop fall into the hole you just dug him, is genius.

And you can see her realisation at how easily she is going to nail him. She sits back, rests her arm on the back of her chair and starts smiling.

It's her glorious insouciance that makes it never get old.

exLtEveDallas · 29/01/2019 15:48

No, Julie Bindel, founder of Justic for Women who has been fighting for women since the 90's - that Julie Bindel.

Politelygiveszerofucks · 29/01/2019 15:48

I realise that criticising Bindel is heresy in these parts, but to be fair to her, she has at least been a tireless campaigner and done some great work beyond shouting into a webcam and has genuinely suffered as a result.

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 15:48

A quick teaser and intro to the wonderful world of Mr Nolan.

www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums2/tabid/369/forumid/190/threadid/1103/scope/posts/Default.aspx

Nightwitch · 29/01/2019 15:50

Yes Peter Andrew Nolan. That's the chap. Hadnt thought of him for aaages.

R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 15:51

Interesting article that I read recently:
'50 Shades Of Gaslighting: Disturbing Signs An Abuser Is Twisting Your Reality'
by Shahida Arabi

(Extract)
'Gaslighting in Conversations
What does gaslighting look like in day to day conversations? It usually involves some form of the following:

Malignant repetition of falsehoods. As noted previously, repeating a lie frequently enough can become a way to reinforce and cement it as truth. Whether these lies are seemingly innocuous or potentially damaging, they can overwrite existing perceptions.

“I told you, I was at work. You need to stop with these baseless accusations.”

“I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

Minimizing the impact or severity of the abuse. This is when the gaslighter has committed a serious offense against you and instead of acknowledging it, minimizes the impact the abuse had on you or the gravity of the abuse. Tell-tale signs someone is minimizing verbal, emotional or even physical abuse may sound something like:

“I didn’t hurt you that badly. You’re just being a crybaby. There’s barely a scar.”

“I didn’t raise my voice. You’re just misinterpreting things.”

Projection and generalization – The gaslighter diverts the claim back to the victim, claiming that he or she is the one who “always” creates trouble, when in fact, it is the gaslighter who is perpetually creating chaos and refusing to validate the victim’s claims. The gaslighter then generalizes all of the victim’s claims and assertions as ridiculous or characterizes them as attempts to create conflict, as if conflict did not already exist in the first place. Common examples include:

“You’re just so sensitive.”

“You’re always causing trouble.”

“You just love drama.”

Withholding information and stonewalling – The abuser is unwilling to engage in the conversation at all and often shuts down the conversation any time a claim is made against him or her about their behavior. This might look like:

“I am done discussing this.”

“I am not going to argue with you, this is pointless.”

Questioning their memory, emotional stability and/or competence – The abuser avoids accusations and conversations by questioning the victim’s memory or ability to comprehend the situation in an unbiased way.

They may say things like, “I don’t remember that. Are you sure you’re remembering that correctly?” even if the event just happened a few moments ago. They may call into question a victim’s awareness, or, if they’ve engaged in substance abuse coercion with the victim, may use that against them to ensure that no one would believe them by asking things like, “Have you been drinking again?” or “Are you off your meds?”

Other common phrases include:

“You really have some issues.”

“You need to calm down and think about this.”

“You’re blowing everything out of proportion, as usual.”

Bringing in a third party/the triangulation maneuver. Triangulation is the act of bringing in another person into the dynamic of a toxic interaction. While we usually talk about triangulation in the context of manufacturing love triangles, when it is used in gaslighting, it can manifest quite differently.

Triangulation (in the context of gaslighting) can be used to confirm the abuser’s version of reality and shame you into believing that you truly are alone in your beliefs and perceptions. It fuels a victim’s sense of alienation when another person (or a group of people – such as the narcissist’s harem) agrees with his or her distortions.

Malignant narcissists are prone to recruiting what the survivor community refers to as “flying monkeys” to agree with their perspective. They may bring these people in physically to confirm their point of view " (continues)

thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/50-shades-of-gaslighting-the-disturbing-signs-an-abuser-is-twisting-your-reality/

PurpleCrowbar · 29/01/2019 15:52

That Posie/Harrop clip really never gets old Grin