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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A reminder: What we did was brilliant. Is brilliant.

874 replies

lisamuggeridge · 28/01/2019 13:46

What we did was amazing. We pulled the GUardian, Parliament, the House of Lords, the media, out of a position they were determined to have, we changed the debate, we showed women were a political force, we acted, all over the country we acted. In different ways. We were bound by the GRA review and as soon as that was done it was evident that power relations had recreated within a social movement. Yes some people by reflex did things that they would always have done. Now we get to relearn and renegotiate power relations by saying we dont play the way media tribalists did. Whatever fall outs there have been were always going to hapen but we still did that. Thats why htis board is permanently monitored by nutcases and acually the power we demonstrated is directly at the root of the toxic fallouts and is a mark of success in itself. Political spectrum reforming within this movement is alright, but it probably pays to remember how amazing what we achieved was and letting that guide what we can achieve., We changed the conversation we can keep doing that. Easily. By having the conversation we want and not bowing to social media tribalism that hides all sorts of nasties and existing political orgs. And learning in a way they cant.

OP posts:
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geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:27

Why do you keep refusing to answer the questions, R0wantrees? What has Lisa done that puts her in this 'we'? And as another poster has asked - who was then attacked as a result and exposed to incredible rudeness by people trying to silence dissenters by calling THEM rude - what has anyone achieved anyway? The only people who seem to be achieving anything are the ones Lisa appears to want to destroy. It is a legitimate question. Trying to silence the debate by talking about custard creams only proves it's you derailing the thread because you don't like what it is saying: the truth.

Dragon3 · 29/01/2019 12:28

Dragon3, maybe if someone can explain exactly what it is the OP has done in order to be able to make the claims of the post that started the thread everyone would be able to move on. That seems to be the problem. Asking people to go away because you can't only seems to be adding to the problem.

Huh? Nobody is asking you to go away. By all means, start a new thread to discuss Lisa's blog. Probably lots of people will read it and take part. This thread was not about Lisa. It was about collective achievements. I don't care who the OP is.

2ndWaveFeminist · 29/01/2019 12:31

No sacred cows, no interest in mud wrestling either. Lots of normal women, some of us mums, some grandmothers, pretty much all of us are daughters. Some hetro, some lesbian some bi. Some men join us, its open to all. Generally people don't like personal attacks.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 29/01/2019 12:33

I agree with all of what Dance said but this bit is worth repeating Even if we had any wish to take sides, in order to do so we’d need to watch dozens of videos, read thousands of blog words, research people’s lives and careers, find and read old Twitter streams, and basically devote tens of hours to a project none of us have any interest in. I think, like most women on FWR, I drop in and out when I have time. Nobody keeps a detailed log of who said what about who and when. It’s a lot of physical and emotional labour to expect of a few thousand random women on the internet

And frankly any person who expects me to do that instantly earns my dislike and distrust plus shows they are completely ignorant of the normal life of most women who have lots of real life important stuff to do (like keeping tiny humans alive and safe).

I don't want to take sides. I admire lots of women for some things that they do whilst disagreeing with their position on other things. I continue to admire women who even make mistakes when in the public eye. Sometimes I admire them even more when they say sorry for their mistakes. I'm not interested in expecting any woman to be perfect, and in my experience people who push the idea that it should be so are also often quite keen on dismantling women's rights and children's safety.

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:33

ToeToToe, I can't see anyone trying to cause infighting. People on here are asking legitimate questions no-one is prepared to answer. Which can only mean one thing: the points being raised are accurate. In which case women on this thread are condoning and supporting terrible wrongs that are being done to other women - the women who really are the brilliant 'we'. Do you never worry the brilliant we may just turn around and tell everyone to push off because of the attacks they have to endure from their own? One apparently already is according to Joanie Walsh after what Jean Hatchet did this weekend. There will be noone left to fight at this rate if women are attacked from within and without. You're asking for superheroes with shells of steel. You're asking too much.

Oxytocindeficient · 29/01/2019 12:34

When women here have made it obvious they’d like to stick to the thread title, regardless of who started it, to continue to insist we cannot do so and we must talk about this other matter, is incredibly entitled and bordering on abusive control.

Nobody here is obliged to answer your questions. Nobody here is obliged to discuss that blog when or where you insist. Nobody here is obligated to you whatsoever.

This is outrageous harassment and derailment like I’ve never seen. I am perplexed at why MNHQ are allowing it to continue.

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:35

You're making excuses, Ineedacupofteadesperately. Lisa was blogging even as she was on here last night. The link was posted. Would you like it posted again? I have a feeling you'd just find another excuse not to have to do the right thing and say, yes, this really is pretty bad and I'm not sure how I can go on supporting someone who seems to be doing a lot of damage to people I need to keep going to protect me and my daughters.

ErrolTheDragon · 29/01/2019 12:37

What has Lisa done that puts her in this 'we'?

Be born an uncompliant women?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/01/2019 12:38

I can't see anyone trying to cause infighting

Hmm
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 29/01/2019 12:38

How many times does a woman have to say "no"?

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:38

Oxytocindeficient, women are entitled to not engage. Women are entitled to leave the thread altogether. That is their right. It is not their right to seek to tone police and control other women's right to a voice and to thoughts and to opinions. For you to claim harassment when the OP has actually blogged about hers and admitted it on here last night is incredible.

littlbrowndog · 29/01/2019 12:39

You American geewhiz ?

R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 12:39

Why do you keep refusing to answer the questions, R0wantrees? What has Lisa done that puts her in this 'we'?

The 'we' in the OP statement is women, (adult human female)
To recognise this in the paragraph is basic comprehension.

geeewhizz You implied when you arrived on this thread yesterday to be new to MN.
Its strange the way you are persistantly demanding I reply to you.
I do not wish to respond to your demands.
Please stop insisting that I do.

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:39

If you don't like attacks why do you support the OP when she is responsible for endless ones that cause incredible distress, 2ndWaveFeminist?

Oxytocindeficient · 29/01/2019 12:40

geeewhizz

You are derailing this thread and harassing and making demands of others. You’re a bully and should start your own thread.

FloralBunting · 29/01/2019 12:40

I am continually boggled as to why some people think this style of belligerent posting against specific women is anything other than profoundly unhelpful on any level.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/01/2019 12:41

seconded Oxytocindeficient

every. damn. word

littlbrowndog · 29/01/2019 12:41

I watched this thread last night
And I got such a strong feeling off bullying off you geewhiz

LangCleg · 29/01/2019 12:42

How many times does a woman have to say "no"?

Forfuckingever.

Oxytocindeficient · 29/01/2019 12:43

I am entitled to tell a bully, they’re a bully.

I am entitled to tell someone demanding certain responses, that they are harassing us.

I am entitled to insist that we stick to the purpose of the thread.

Why is it that some people do not want us to celebrate and support all the good work being done? I bloody wonder

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/01/2019 12:44

i actually haven't seen anyone 'supporting' whatever the heck Lisa is supposed to have said on her blog

all i've seen is people saying

I'm not interested in getting involved

it's different

2ndWaveFeminist · 29/01/2019 12:46

I'm baling out of this thread, we see you geeewhizz, Politely, Bubonic we see you.
I know you're struggling with this but women do not have to do as you demand

littlbrowndog · 29/01/2019 12:47

Yeah we can’t be forced into doing the stuff you want us to
Just can’t

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:48

And I am entitled to my opinion. I'm not here to try to open the eyes of those who shall never see. I'm not here to engage with any of you. That would make me the definition of a fool. I am here to ensure this record is at least balanced and accurate and that people who don't have the courage to enter the fray when they will be shunned and attacked will be able to see the truth beyond the gloryhunting of the OP. Judging by my PMs I am succeeding on that score at least.

Dragon3 · 29/01/2019 12:49

Well you have to admire the slightly desperate persistence. Keep talking about the blog if you wish, geewhizz. Just start a new thread to do it. Those who wish to join that discussion will do so.

I can't see anyone trying to cause infighting

Grin
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