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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A reminder: What we did was brilliant. Is brilliant.

874 replies

lisamuggeridge · 28/01/2019 13:46

What we did was amazing. We pulled the GUardian, Parliament, the House of Lords, the media, out of a position they were determined to have, we changed the debate, we showed women were a political force, we acted, all over the country we acted. In different ways. We were bound by the GRA review and as soon as that was done it was evident that power relations had recreated within a social movement. Yes some people by reflex did things that they would always have done. Now we get to relearn and renegotiate power relations by saying we dont play the way media tribalists did. Whatever fall outs there have been were always going to hapen but we still did that. Thats why htis board is permanently monitored by nutcases and acually the power we demonstrated is directly at the root of the toxic fallouts and is a mark of success in itself. Political spectrum reforming within this movement is alright, but it probably pays to remember how amazing what we achieved was and letting that guide what we can achieve., We changed the conversation we can keep doing that. Easily. By having the conversation we want and not bowing to social media tribalism that hides all sorts of nasties and existing political orgs. And learning in a way they cant.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
2ndWaveFeminist · 29/01/2019 11:16

Ssd I just spent the last half hr or so trying to write a summary in a msg to you and missed your post above as I was a page back. Pls msg me back

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 29/01/2019 11:16

It is an entirely justified opinion. I am allowed them.

Indeed you are, the brilliance of free speech, you can also repeat them as much as you like.

The same free speech means others are able to challenge and give their viewpoints on that opinion, as much as they like.

R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 11:18

I'm not sure why if someone has questions to ask Lisa about her blog they wouldn't do so on her blog.

Its a good question and suggestion.

Datun · 29/01/2019 11:18

And comparing women here to paedophiles and sex offenders?

There is a point at which one's reaction is rather less one of offence and irritation and more, 'put the dog down Damian'.

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 11:19

You'd have better luck reasoning with Damian, honestly.

userschmoozer · 29/01/2019 11:20

TL:DR
Misogynistic people have a vested interest in playing whack a mole with bolshy women, so as to teach the rest of us a lesson.

Oxytocindeficient · 29/01/2019 11:20

I don’t agree with people plopping into this thread at the end and asking others to explain it so they don’t have to read it. That’s quite entitled. Nobody here is obliged to do anything for you.

After having actually read it, it seems the OP has done something elsewhere others are annoyed about. It’s fine to be annoyed and not agree with what she has done, but to keep insisting people here react, in the way you want them to, and to continue to bully the OP all night long about it, is just complete BS. The threads purpose has now gone, because MNHQ do not have mods overnight the women here were subject to targeted harassment and trolling. I don’t think that’s ok.

I would have liked to come to this thread and celebrate the things that have been happening and have that the focus. Unfortunately it really has become nothing to do with any of that, lots of fighting and baiting and just complete utter nonsense. This is about the third thread that’s ended up completely derailed, purposefully. It’s fun to talk about food and all, but perhaps just continuing on with the point of the thread while ignoring them completely would be a better approach next time. Like, literally they’re not there. Then when MNHQ get into work they can deal with them. I know we think it might be beneficial to show what we are up against, but I’d rather avoid that and focus on talking about what has been going on. It wastes my time to read through a bunch of crap. Perhaps it would be good to let this thread be removed and start another, during the day when mods are about. Then we can discuss all the brilliance without the nastiness.

2ndWaveFeminist · 29/01/2019 11:20

They want us on the sidelines shouting fight fight fight pretty much sums up this thread.

The discussion of weetabix, cake etc is us saying we won't. (Sometimes leads to a bonus like tip on what to do with overripe bananas when not ready to use them)

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/01/2019 11:22

what Datun said at 11.09.

not interested in your drama

take it elsewhere

Oxytocindeficient · 29/01/2019 11:22

For those insisting on introducing this blog fight thing, why don’t you just start your own separate thread? Women here can join or ignore. You’ve entered a different discussion and derailed it.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/01/2019 11:24

you are wise Oxytocindeficient

the targeted harassment was upsetting to watch

Absentwomen · 29/01/2019 11:26

The state of this.

Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 11:28

Lisa is the OP, she has made statements in the opening post which are seriously undermined by her blog.

It is perfectly reasonable to discuss this huge contradiction. Don't if you dont want to, but there's no need to moderate me thanks.

ToeToToe · 29/01/2019 11:30

Awful, awful bullying of Lisa last night.

Anyway, here's something beautiful for us to look at again.

A reminder: What we did was brilliant. Is brilliant.
R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 11:32

OP wrote 'A Reminder What we did was brilliant, is brilliant'

What we did was amazing. We pulled the GUardian, Parliament, the House of Lords, the media, out of a position they were determined to have, we changed the debate, we showed women were a political force, we acted, all over the country we acted. In different ways. We were bound by the GRA review and as soon as that was done it was evident that power relations had recreated within a social movement. Yes some people by reflex did things that they would always have done. Now we get to relearn and renegotiate power relations by saying we dont play the way media tribalists did. Whatever fall outs there have been were always going to hapen but we still did that. Thats why htis board is permanently monitored by nutcases and acually the power we demonstrated is directly at the root of the toxic fallouts and is a mark of success in itself. Political spectrum reforming within this movement is alright, but it probably pays to remember how amazing what we achieved was and letting that guide what we can achieve., We changed the conversation we can keep doing that. Easily. By having the conversation we want and not bowing to social media tribalism that hides all sorts of nasties and existing political orgs. And learning in a way they cant.

R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 11:36

Anyway, here's something beautiful for us to look at again

The Resisters Action thread here is wonderful.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3492065-ReSisters-standing-up-for-adult-human-females-Thread-title-edited-by-MNHQ

resistersunited.org/gallery/

Manchester Women, 'Make More Noise'
makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/mmnblog/a-womans-place-is-in-the-resisters-midnight-t-shirt-protest-sparks-outrage

Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 12:02

So here's the title of Lisa's blog about Karen.

The mothers you harmed have cancelled your ‘feminism’. Happy New Year.

This is a reaction to Karen tweeting that woman is not synonymous with family and parenting. She didn't even say "mother". Lisa is addressing Karen with a headline saying "the mothers you have harmed".

This is not reasonable. It is bloody awful. Its is certainly not wonderful.

It goes on...

You are a grotesque parody of a human being and not fit to approach any of the women your obscene disgusting vanity has harmed in the last eight years. A cruel, sadistic, hollow shell of a woman.

This is Karen Ingala-Smith she is referring to. I do not support this terrible behaviour towards Karen. It is completely out of order.

idgeofreason.wordpress.com/2018/12/31/karen-ingala-smith-the-mothers-you-harmed-have-cancelled-your-feminism-happy-new-year/

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 29/01/2019 12:07

The people on this board hoping that they can turn the tide of public opinion are expecting an awful lot of work from women, all of whom have other things to do.

Even if we had any wish to take sides, in order to do so we’d need to watch dozens of videos, read thousands of blog words, research people’s lives and careers, find and read old Twitter streams, and basically devote tens of hours to a project none of us have any interest in.

I think, like most women on FWR, I drop in and out when I have time. Nobody keeps a detailed log of who said what about who and when. It’s a lot of physical and emotional labour to expect of a few thousand random women on the internet.

And what if we did all that and came back with some kind of judgement? What would it matter? A big, fat, fucking zero, because there is no organised cabal, no leadership team, no organisational structures to progress complaints. There is no super-secret-feminist-ninja-illuminati using FWR as a front. Sadly.

Just a bunch of women worried about their rights.

It might provide fleeting satisfaction to some obsessive posters (or not), but that’s it.

I come back to my point about female socialisation and the expectation that women be nice. Men in positions of power regularly and robustly say dreadful things about each other and it is seen as business as usual.

Women criticise each other, rightly or wrongly, and we’re all expected to throw ourselves on our swords in expiation.

It’s annoying and silly and distracts us from the work we should be doing.

Dragon3 · 29/01/2019 12:15

I think the terrible nonsense written about Karen Ingala Smith a FEW WEEKS AGO was entirely unjustified

Noted. Loud and clear.

Why don't you start a new discussion? Then we can talk about all the positive activism that was the original focus of this thread.

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:15

Bit lost again. I think this point was made several times last night: there is one rule for everyone who gets MNers' approval, another for everyone else. So newbies aren't allowed. People who disagree aren't allowed. Comments about sacred cows' conduct in general aren't allowed because that conduct occurred outside of MN - except when it's Jean Hatchet coming on to discuss material written outside of MN or Lisa Muggeridge doing to Caroline Farrow what Jean did to PP in which case it's OK. Newbies will be told they're rude by people who are then incredibly rude to those simply asking for a bit of help. And anyone asking why there is so much support for someone who clearly does a lot of damage to people required to fight on behalf of women will be stonewalled, sent to Coventry and their questioning and criticism written off as an attack. Have I got that right, is that how it works round here?

Dragon3 · 29/01/2019 12:19

Geewhiz, no sacred cows. Just resistance to the notion that we must take sides.

And resistance to derailing. There's a whole forum and anyone is free to start threads.

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:22

Dragon3, maybe if someone can explain exactly what it is the OP has done in order to be able to make the claims of the post that started the thread everyone would be able to move on. That seems to be the problem. Asking people to go away because you can't only seems to be adding to the problem.

To claim LM was crucified on here is patently ridiculous. She was asked to explain why she crucifies so many others who are doing something tangible to protect women's rights while then claiming their glory. She was asked how she can talk about the conversation when she tries to destroy so many of the voices trying to have it. To focus on the original post is the point of the thread. Trying to control that focus is, well, controlling. There's a lot of policing going on in here.

R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 12:23

So here's the title of Lisa's blog about Karen.
Bubonicpanic I know that you post on FWR regularly unlike the previous guests to the thread.

You have made your feelings clear about some specific blog posts and about how you view the situation with regards Lisa M and Karen I-S.

The OP though was about the 'We':
"What we did was amazing. We pulled the GUardian, Parliament, the House of Lords, the media, out of a position they were determined to have, we changed the debate, we showed women were a political force, we acted, all over the country we acted. In different ways

There is nothing in this statement that claims that everything that every woman did during this time was brilliant and wonderful.

geeewhizz · 29/01/2019 12:24

Dragon3, it is not derailing to ask the OP how they can justify their post when they appear to have worked in direct contravention of it. Trying to turn legitimate analysis and fair criticism into 'derailing' is no different to writing off any questioning of the trans movement as hate speech.

Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 12:24

The title of the thread is

What we did was brilliant. Is brilliant.
The author of the title is also the author of the blog I've posted about a few times now. That is not brilliant.

You are a grotesque parody of a human being and not fit to approach any of the women your obscene disgusting vanity has harmed in the last eight years. A cruel, sadistic, hollow shell of a woman.

This is not brilliant.