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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A reminder: What we did was brilliant. Is brilliant.

874 replies

lisamuggeridge · 28/01/2019 13:46

What we did was amazing. We pulled the GUardian, Parliament, the House of Lords, the media, out of a position they were determined to have, we changed the debate, we showed women were a political force, we acted, all over the country we acted. In different ways. We were bound by the GRA review and as soon as that was done it was evident that power relations had recreated within a social movement. Yes some people by reflex did things that they would always have done. Now we get to relearn and renegotiate power relations by saying we dont play the way media tribalists did. Whatever fall outs there have been were always going to hapen but we still did that. Thats why htis board is permanently monitored by nutcases and acually the power we demonstrated is directly at the root of the toxic fallouts and is a mark of success in itself. Political spectrum reforming within this movement is alright, but it probably pays to remember how amazing what we achieved was and letting that guide what we can achieve., We changed the conversation we can keep doing that. Easily. By having the conversation we want and not bowing to social media tribalism that hides all sorts of nasties and existing political orgs. And learning in a way they cant.

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ssd · 29/01/2019 10:47

bloody hell

thanks everyone

I asked as obviously I wanted to know what the thread is about, being a woman,being over 50, feeling dull and tired, I thought another woman might explain in a few sentences what this thread is about

but instead I got nope read it (was hoping not to have to read 490 posts) something about weetabix and not much else

seems there's more interest in each others comments than bothering with someone who is obviously ignorant about whats being discussed and would appreciate being filled in

as I said thanks a lot, been on mn for 14 years and was hoping someone like Jean would come along and explain it to me "I adore Jean for her passion, kindness, humanity and her flaws"

yeah, cheers

lisamuggeridge · 29/01/2019 10:49

We all manage it everywhere, work, family, life, community, we work with and deal with peopl ewe dont like. We teach our kids so they can function at school with kids they dont like who maybe dont like them. there is no magic courtroom for women to be disciplined for wrongthink or speak and no homogenity because we have a uterus and recognise our rights are under threat. THis is NOT hard to grasp. If you cant grasp its because you are not a functioning adult or you are lying. Usually the latter.

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lisamuggeridge · 29/01/2019 10:50

Sorry SSD I was joking. It fell flat, I am really sorry if I made you feel like that.

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ssd · 29/01/2019 10:52

its fine lisa, am just getting annoyed, I can tell the thread is really complicated and I'm old and past and and dont even know what the term TRA means so theres probably not much help for me, but I'd just like to know the jist of the thread, just a bit of whats going on

Dragon3 · 29/01/2019 10:52

OMG. Another 'women have opinions' shocker.

If it's not incitement to violence, anyone can write whatever they like. Rant away. We don't have to agree with those opinions. We don't have to sanction their publication in order for them to be expressed.

Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 10:53

So, I have commented on the really awful misinterpretation of what Karen I-S tweeted about the budget, all of which is saved in a blog for all to read.

I dont agree with it and call it terrible nonsense.

The reaction? and people want us to spend our energy enforcing ideological purity and denouncing each other?

Er no, I am challenging the terrible nonsense written about Karen I-S

STOP IT

Excuse me? This is a forum. I can comment on the OPs blog here if I like, please do not censor or police my comments.

a narc is looking for evidence to bolster their delusions.

Is this me? I am a narc looking for evidence to bolster my delusions because I said I understand and agree with Karen's point about women not being synonymous with parenting (a reason for feminism) and that your reaction to her and subsequent blogs are terrible nonsense, and this is how your write about me as a result?

lisamuggeridge · 29/01/2019 10:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 29/01/2019 10:55

Anyone can do what they like, that's the beauty of free speech.

Sometimes though people take it as some sort of hurtful insult when not agreed with.

lisamuggeridge · 29/01/2019 10:57

Now I appreciate that you think women should be controlled to fit with your imagination Bubonic and I appreciate you are sincere in believing your behaviour to me is normal and I would be seeking your adjudication. I can assure you am not. And the radical notion that women bound by something can act to protect it even if they dont like each other is not radical anywhere else.

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Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 10:59

But actually that is someone directly lobbying an MP NOT to mention that situation. In a democracy.

No it isn't.

You are the woman who said it would upset you too much to have the women being harmed by austerity discussed.

No she didn't.

Misrepresentation and terrible nonsense.

LangCleg · 29/01/2019 11:02

SSD - try: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Dragon3 · 29/01/2019 11:03

SSD most people don't have time to catch up on hundreds of posts. Totally understandable.

Lang's summary upthread is accurate. Basically, two activists disagreed on a point of principle and some new posters aren't grasping why, in wider terms, nobody really cares.

I don't have a complete grip on what's going on with Lisa, but more of the same it seems.

'But... but... she said x! Burn the witch!'
'Meh. Opinions, eh?'
'Burn the witch!'
'Sigh.'

Google Jean Hatchett to find out more of her rides for murdered women.

Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 11:04

Not a sockpuppet

I am a poster on mumsnet.

who targets women online

This is a thread, people have debates and conversations. You are telling me I am "targeting women on line* by posting on a thread on mumsnet?

and thinks there is an imaginary courtroom

Is that what I think? It's a thread on mumsnet. I'm commenting on your terrible nonsense in your blog about Karen. I am not imagining a courtroom.

R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 11:06

ssd There's a thread which many people new to the issues have found useful. It might give context to current discussions:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Pinkpanther473 · 29/01/2019 11:07

Ssd
I think the thread started with encouragement about how women working together have helped to challenge some of the current thinking in police, education, health, media and public services. The current thinking, as influenced by trans-rights activists (TRAs) is that boys/men who feel they have the gender of a woman should be allowed to identify as a woman and have access to previously women only services. This should be granted even if they maintain the sexual organs of a male and wish to have sex with women. The view is that they can then identify as a lesbian woman.
Then it seems the thread has been challenged by posters wanting to know why women are not denouncing other women who feel the same about this issue but have right wing views or have sympathy with others with right wing views.

MsMcWoodle · 29/01/2019 11:07

ssd - I think we are a bit busy - I had to read the thread - no insult to you in expecting you to do the same.
I think that various people want various other people to account for all of their lives and are using bits and pieces of what are obviously convoluted off-mumsnet discussions to prove that we should all stop the wonderful work people have been doing and stick pitchforks in each other instead.
Most of us don't want to do this.
This thread is about the wonderful work. Derailing and trying to involve other people in disagreements is not productive.

Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 11:08

Now I appreciate that you think women should be controlled to fit with your imagination Bubonic

Do I? It's a forum. You have a blog, I'm commenting on it.

and I appreciate you are sincere in believing your behaviour to me is normal

Isn't it?

It's a forum. You have a blog, I'm commenting on it.

l and I would be seeking your adjudication.
It's a forum. You have a blog, I'm commenting on it.

Datun · 29/01/2019 11:09

I'm not sure why this is becoming so difficult to grasp.

You are trying to get women to criticise Lisa based on her blog. Everyone gets that.

They're not going to do it. For various reasons.

Once you have realised that, you then go on to criticise the women who won't criticise Lisa.

Which does less than nothing for your original critical premise of Lisa.

Can you see how this is a self-perpetuating toxic situation that is about as counter-productive to you, as anything could be?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 29/01/2019 11:09

Tape loops N' fruit loops.

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 11:10

I'm not sure why if someone has questions to ask Lisa about her blog they wouldn't do so on her blog.

LangCleg · 29/01/2019 11:11

Look, I don't know why this is hard to understand.

We're in the middle of a highly emotive situation where everybody is constantly on high alert. There are major disagreements between prominent figures not just on tactics but also regarding personal beefs. The most recent one being Posie and Jean. The one on this thread being Karen and Lisa.

The point most FWR regulars are making is that we do not wish to adjudicate. Both these conflicts may have one party fully in the right and one in the wrong or may be six of one and half a dozen of the other.

We. Don't. Care.

We just want to support the contribution every woman makes to this struggle. That's it.

Not rocket science.

There are women I like, women I don't like and women I'm indifferent to within this movement. I don't bring it to the board and demand other women are in lockstep with my opinion. That's the fucking point being made.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 29/01/2019 11:11

I'm not sure why if someone has questions to ask Lisa about her blog they wouldn't do so on her blog.

Because it's not questions, it's comments.

AngryAttackKittens · 29/01/2019 11:12

Well, if this plays out as expected it will at least answer part of SSN's question about what this thread is about.

Bubonicpanic · 29/01/2019 11:14

This thread is about the wonderful work

It is, I am commenting on some of the wonderful work the OP has done. The reaction is interesting. I'm a narc in an imaginary courtroom. I have a pitchfork and want to stop people doing "wonderful work"

I think the terrible nonsense written about Karen Ingala Smith a FEW WEEKS AGO was entirely unjustified. It is not "wonderful work. Saying this is not a pitchfork or narc rage. It is an entirely justified opinion. I am allowed them.

ToeToToe · 29/01/2019 11:15

ssd - there are basically 3 or 4 current threads on here targeting prominent feminists - Jean, posie parker, LisaM - who have, in their various ways, done an awful lot of activism, raised their heads above the parapet, to raise awareness of the damage trans-activism is doing to women and children.

Some people now want to cause in-fighting between said feminists by dredging up any old dirt they can, and seem to want MNetters to take sides.

Most MNetters are telling them where to fuck right off to. This is making them v angry. They don't want us to like all the gender critical women - they want us to choose. They want us on the sidelines shouting fight fight fight. We won't.