Jean Hatchet, new blog post

[SugarPlumFairy99]

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-up-for-women.html

This blog post from Jean is eye-opening. Working alongside anti-abortion, hard right groups undermines decades of feminism.

Shame on Posie. I agree with Jean, I will also be sitting down for women.

The problem some have with this (and Jean) is how can you align yourself with political movements who deny women the rights to their own bodies or encourage them to stay with abusive husbands.

I personally have a mix of feelings about all this.

I agree with many things written here but I also agree with the heart of what Jean says.

It's ok to sit alongside people in a debate and agree with ideas; it's another thing to begin to be linked in deeper ways. These people deny women's rights.

I’ve read the blog post and I think before commenting I’m going to go and listen to the podcast. My general rule of thumb is not to publicly air fights when the other party can’t respond.

Shame on posie? Fuck that shit.
I won’t say shame on any woman who is putting her neck on the line on a subject that has left her open to endless abuse.
Come back to me when you’ve made the impact she has and then we can discuss shame. What bollocks.

I'm in.

"I stand for Jean, for Posie, and for ALL women who are fighting for our rights. Right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, rich, poor... I don't care. We stand together."

Hi Dr Harrop

I think the best thing we can do - for women, for feminism - is to let this thread die. We don't need to carry on stoking the fire.

As to the contents of Jean's post, I think we all just need to do our own thing. Jean makes her contribution, Posie makes hers, it's no surprise that when they overlap they don't blend seamlessly.
long live diversity and disagreement I say.

I stand with Posie and I stand with Jean. And respect both of them. Whether they wish to stand with each other is entirely up to them and that choice should be respected too.

We do not believe in RightThink. Why should we expect either of them to? We are not a homogeneous body. There is room for different approaches.

Absolutely.

Just listening to what Posie says on the Feminist Current podcast where she talks about Tommy Robinson etc... and the grooming gangs ( it starts at around 37 mins) www.feministcurrent.com/2019/01/24/podcast-posie-parker-standing-for-women/

I don't hear her dismissing the work of feminist women who fought to expose grooming gangs. What she says is the mainstream media ignored it, and it was allowed to carry on by the police and by labour councils. And it was this gap which Tommy Robinson exploited. ...... I don't hear anything like her saying something supportive of Tommy Robinson or dismissive of feminists.

Anyway yes, this: I stand for Jean, for Posie, and for ALL women who are fighting for our rights. Right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, rich, poor... I don't care. We stand together.

Harrop's grudge against Posie is personal because she made him look like an utter twat on national TV. I won't be joining in with the criticism, she's done loads to highlight these issues at great personal cost. I don't know all her views on other topics and nor do I care. I agree with her, and other women from all walks of life and different political persuasions, on this. I thought it was TRAs who didn't tolerate any dissenting opinions.

I won’t say shame on any woman who is putting her neck on the line on a subject that has left her open to endless abuse.
Come back to me when you’ve made the impact she has and then we can discuss shame. What bollocks.

I concur, Sandy.

Is Adrian making posts saying "ooh Posie I can prove that you are not popular!" or something like that? cos if so I won't bother looking.

He's demanding GC women repent or some such nonsense.

I think it would be great to let this thread die.

But first, I cannot get enough of this wonderful TV debate where Posie made Doofus look even more like a doofus than normal and quite frankly, a bit like a psycho too. When I’m having a bad day I love to watch it and laugh and laugh and laugh....

Fabulous Oxytocin!

I hate this. It's the second time Posie has been publicly condemned for her beliefs/alliances.

Posie is unapologetic, unafraid and an advocate of free speech. It's how she rinsed Harrop so comprehensively.

If she is offensive to someone because of her political alliances, and you want to address that, you will also have to address eliminating that side of her personality.

I understand that compromising one's integrity is sometimes unacceptable. Of course. And Jean's integrity is one of the things that makes her so bloody admirable.

I object to it being done in public, that's all.

And guess what, I can admire Jean for keeping her integrity intact, and support Posie at exactly the same time.

And do.

Furthermore, this issue takes its toll, profoundly. On very many women. Particularly those in the public eye.

Some people find that this issue outweighs everything else. I can completely understand that. Others whose politics have been life defining, are more nuanced. I can accept that too.

Keep it cool Trig, keep it cool.

My understanding is that Posie’s focus is free speech, Jean is more of a traditional left wing feminist.

I am probably closer to Posie, which does not mean I admire JH any less or that I don’t respect her views. Indeed I assume that there are lots of areas where I would disagree with either or both.

I am comfortable with the fact that, say, right wing media such as the Daily Mail, are effective champions of free speech. I am a bit less comfortable, but more or less accepting, that GC allies in the US tend to be the Christian Right. (And that British women can do their bit to help open up and broaden out the debate there.) I think Twitter, Facebook and others pose an extraordinary ordinary threat to free speech.

The important thing is due diligence. Don’t expect others to agree with you. There is not a simple right and wrong. Debate, listening and straight ‘sunlight’ are important. Then set your boundaries. Yes you can have common ground on some things and but disagree totally on others.

I think Jean has been naive. I also think she was wrong to blog. Which does not mean I don’t admire the things she does. But she should focus on her common ground with Posie, and recognise that the gender/sex battle affects everyone, which means different approaches and some unexpected allies.

I stand for Jean, for Posie, and for ALL women who are fighting for our rights. Right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, rich, poor... I don't care. We stand together.

Plus what Sandy said. Both Jean & Posie have done amazing & incredible work and been extremely kind to me.

I know little about these groups but whether your bag is reproductive rights or sex work, exploited/trafficked women, women in prison, surrogacy, women affected by austerity, women impacted by sexual or domestic violence, women in politics/business/academia - NO progress can take place on female equality and flourishing unless we work together to entrench the understanding since time began, of what a woman actually is.

Hold the line.

Richard Littlejohn puts it well in this article

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6116899/LITTLEJOHN-outrageous-Linda-Bellos-dragged-court-violent-trans-activists.html

She’s having a right old moan.

Um, Heritage?

No. Absolutely not. Last place you align yourself. This is where you bury any shred of reputation you have as working for women.

This isn't the "Christian Right". This is the organization that helps create the policies to use the Christian Right as a political tool for right wing politicians to manipulate.

This is where "intellectuals" create political cover for anti-choice policies.

This is a tank that writes racially charged policies to allow the GOP to divide and conquer and use "white politics" to maintain their electability.

This is one of the tanks that writes the scripts for climate change denialism.

If you want to be heard in the US, the LAST place you go is a RWNJ think tank, especially Heritage.

Or anything connected with the Kochs.

I stand for Jean, for Posie, and for ALL women who are fighting for our rights. Right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, rich, poor... I don't care. We stand together.

Just adding my 2 pence.

And yes, the Kochs are hot and heavy on "free speech".

Money = free speech is what they've contributed.

Look up Citizens United.

I stand for Jean, for Posie, and for ALL women who are fighting for our rights. Right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, rich, poor... I don't care. We stand together.
I don't have a problem with Jean disagreeing with Posie and I don't really care if it's in public. Feminists have always argued and always will. We're not a religion or a cult or a paramilitary group.

I have a big problem with the left who, not content with throwing women under a bus, have got the brass neck to try and tell us who we should and shouldn't talk to. If they hadn't been so squeamish about calling out rapists then maybe there wouldn't have been a gap left for Tommy Robinson to walk into. They can fuck right off.

And you have one voice of a survivor and another of one who isn’t- both need each other - I also think the former aren’t always consulted enough by the latter in the haste for action - sometimes it helps to slow things down a little, to consolidate and organise

I stand with both, empathise with both and hope for reconciliation soon after this weeks out, in private.

There are tough questions about partnering with those who would take women’s rights away - I have read WOLF’s explanation and it makes sense to me. However again in the rush to action, I imagine there hasn’t been enough communication about what the arrangement and more importantly what it isnt.

It’s not about giving women’s agency up but about choosing one’s battles. Dworkin’s words are worth re- reading over and over again

If you have a problem with people the left doing a hostile takeover of a part of the left, you don't go to the right and ask them for help unless you want the right to take over or you want to burn it all to the ground.

I stand for Jean, for Posie, and for ALL women who are fighting for our rights. Right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, rich, poor... I don't care. We stand together.