Jean Hatchet, new blog post

[SugarPlumFairy99]

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-up-for-women.html

This blog post from Jean is eye-opening. Working alongside anti-abortion, hard right groups undermines decades of feminism.

Shame on Posie. I agree with Jean, I will also be sitting down for women.

Yes, Harrop et al post screenshots and the same few people all agree with each other. Harrop ventures away from twitter to share his view with the real world and everybody thinks he's nuts.

Sometimes when someone likes you or approves of you, it is not a compliment. Not remotely.

Agreed Lisa.

I don't give a tiny fuck about what Harrop and his cronies think of us. Let them mix and ruminate....they hate us anyway.

This is the strength of women like Jean and Posie. I aspire to be more like them. I really do find myself edging away from the left though if I am being honest....they are letting women down in so many new, sneaky and inventive ways. Ten years ago I would have never have expected that. At least you know where you are with the right wingers....their misogyny is as old as the hills.

I posted this last night but it’s relevant again:

Men often react to women’s words—speaking and writing—as if they were acts of violence; sometimes men react to women’s words with violence. So we lower our voices. Women whisper. Women apologize. Women shut up. Women trivialize what we know. Women shrink. Women pull back. Most women have experienced enough dominance from men—control, violence, insult, contempt—that no threat seems empty.

Andrea Dworkin

Exactly,. I will not edit myself to bow down to the control of internet mentalists whose opinion I would be insane to value.

No one is asking you to. But if you want to win the hearts and minds of perfectly normal reasonable people, it is a good idea not to align yourself with bigots.

I too think this is a great thread.

I don't really understand all this talk about groups, solidarity, feminism and allliances.

I have always formed my own views on things I care about, happy to read well written articles in the Mail, Guardian or wherever. I have been lucky enough to be able to assume equality rather than engage in feminism, have never joined a political party, and rarely vote, indeed when I have done it has been to support a good constituency MP.

I find this joining a party, and then adhering to their line bizarre and tribal, but have known enough people who do so, and then go on to lecture those who dont, to know to keep quiet. I really care about giving opportunities to children who need them, and was completely appalled by Rotherham, and really dont understand why those who feel able to preach to me, don't seem to.

Brexit was the watershed. Being labelled racist by someone who could not place Poland on the map, but was good at singing along with oh-Jeremy-Corbyn, when my concern was the rise of the far right in Europe and the lack of democratic mechanisms that would allow Europe to reform itself.

Self-ID is surely an issue. People are concerned about the proposal for a number of reasons. Men get the womens sport, medics get the ethics issues of giving hormones to autistic children and so on. The more, and the more diverse, the voices that are heard, the better. If offered a platform it is your choice whether it is likely to be effective or counter-productive.

Listen, respect, think.

Hopefully out of this will come an understanding that critical engagement is important. That people with different views can still good people. And that we expect our politicians to offer more than they are doing at the moment.

Its like when posters criticise people allying with David Davies MP. Thank goodness there is one MP who is speaking up, because he feels it is the right thing to do. Those waiting for the right sort of Labour MP to do so might be waiting a long time. This is a single-issue campaign. Not the time to retreat into group affiliations.

I'm loving the Dworkin on this thread too.

The thing is, perfectly 'normal' people can also be bigots on all matter of issues.

I no longer identify with the left/right binary. Old political alliances are breaking down, as people find themselves uniting with others around certain issues.

The most important thing is that the general public of Britain ( in the first instance) becomes aware of what is going on around TWAW. Twitter is its own little world, and most 'normal' people have never heard of Posie, Jean or Harrop.

Sorry it's a while upthread, but I just want to offer a little round of applause for Lang and "genderism uber alles"

No one is asking you to. But if you want to win the hearts and minds of perfectly normal reasonable people, it is a good idea not to align yourself with bigots.

I think I was quite clear long before this conversation about where I stood on fascism, recognising the political spectrum has reformed within a movement is not the same as allying with, supporting, or being silent on anything. I think Jean was right to write that blog post, I think its good this is all out, but the bottom line of no woman under a bus and I dont live for the approval of narc trabs activists isnt changed remotely by that.

1. The implications of the Self ID proposals need exposure. Ordinary people instinctively know men dont become women because they say so. Which is why the Mail and Sun write such effective articles. Enough exposure and our politicians start looking very silly. This is how we will stop the GRA, and reclaim our language.

1. Tommy Robinson may be hateful, but the authorities who failed, and perhaps continue to fail, to act when thousands of young girls were being groomed, are far more culpable. The concern was "racism" yet no one talks about young Asian girls forced into arranged marriages with serial abusers. Surely action which would call out unacceptable behaviour and protect girls in both white and BAME is not racist. Again grooming was an issue ordinary people got. If it is the Mail who publishes, if it is Tommy Robinson who highlights authority inaction, whose fault is that? We need to centre safeguarding girls (both white and from within Asian communities). rather than criticise the messenger.

Perfectly normal reasonable people believe TWAW and that anyone who doesn’t agree is automatically a bigot. I can’t be held responsible for the stupidity of others who believe working with someone on one issue means you completely align with them and are therefore right wing and evil. I also say again that the, left=good and right=bad thinking is both not true, and utterly insanely stupid thinking.

I am glad others have enjoyed reading Dworkin here. She has pretty much got a response for everything! I really do think it’s crucial for feminists to reject the political system men created.

Ok haven’t rtft

I can agree with someone on one issue and profoundly disagree with them on another. It’s a bit uncomfortable I’ll admit but then again look where the demand for complete moral purity has got us. In order to have a group of free thinking people one can’t banish all disagreement. If we only associated with those we agree with on everything then either we’d never find anyone to associate with, or the people we do associate with will mostly be parroting preordained mantras, and we’re seeing that in action all the time, and what’s more, the groups who do this never achieve anything worth while in the long term.

Basically, the way I see it, if we don’t fight the TRAs/AWA with a united front, all the things the right wingers support will come to pass anyway. The category of woman as adult human female will disappear altogether and there won’t be any womens’ rights left to argue over. There’s a reason women of all stripes are fighting against this anti-women movement, and that’s because we all see where it’s leading, and it’ll be all of us under the bus if we fail. We can fight over which rights we believe women should and shouldn’t have when we’ve insured that we are allowed, as women, to make those decisions, but we can’t do that if it’s all taken away, which will happen if we don’t suck it up and fight together.

So, I stand with all women on this. All our backs are against the wall and if the women I disagree with go down then I go down, my partner goes down, my sister and my mum go down. I’d rather have opposing groups of women, even the ones I profoundly disagree with, fighting over which human rights I’m allowed than a bunch of misogynistic men, because none of those men will have my back.

Lisa - but the bottom line of no woman under a bus

Allying with US groups who are racist, homophobic and who are lobbying to remove abortions rights is throwing some women under a bus.

Perfectly normal reasonable people believe TWAW and that anyone who doesn’t agree is automatically a bigot.

Which is ironic because dismissing and demonising everyone they disagree with- calling them 'bigots' is pretty bigoted and intolerant. Just sayin.

The predators currently hiding under the oh so inclusive umbrella won't care about whether the women and girls they target are left or right wing, feminist or not.
The born men currently cheating women out of sporting records, scholarships and medals won't care about political allegiances.

Women are in this together and there is only one group that gains if we are divided - and it's not women.

And FWIW - Tommy Robinson jumped on a bandwagon. Other people who happened to be women had been highlighting grooming gangs for years. The only reason anyone took any notice is because a controversial man said something.

What we need is for women's voices to be heard, not for women to have to team up with right wing bigots to be taken seriously. If other women are happy to do the latter, knock yourselves out.

And in case of confusion, when I say right wing I'm not talking about your local Tory MP.

But what does “align yourself with bigots” mean? I despise Trump, but if his administration successfully pass law that means those two teenage boys in Connecticut can’t keep beating girls at sprinting and denying them opportunities that may come from athletic success, and I agree with that, am I “aligning myself with bigots”? The essence of debate on this thread is how ideas can overlap, but that doesn’t mean align.

Going to Mordor when there is no option

I'm sorry two of the best advocates of Women speaking out on the attempts to colonise our long fight for rights, language, spaces and name our sex oppression, discrimination and abuse 'privilege' have fallen out. Yes, Posie and Jean have very different styles, different principles, different priorities but they both want women's liberation and centre women in their fight.

On the GC parent's site where events like this (this too) are thought of by groups of parents who question the born in the wrong body ideology, there is no right and left. We are aware of our different political stances and we let each other know. But despite that political friction, we have a higher aim and a higher communality that unites us: we love our children, we don't believe there is anything they need to medically change. We support each other when bad news of a hurried T or E prescription comes or a unnecessary mastectomy takes healthy tissue away from our children's bodies. We support each other.

I'm politically homeless as the left has sold women to whoever wants to be one, making our struggles meaningless. Calling as cis to please a handful of discontent males. I want human rights for all and sex rights protection for biological women. I respect the trans rational ideology and those who understand why is important that women are respected. Women cannot selfid out of their anatomy, their stigma, their abuse. It happens regardless of identity politics. The right is as bad and to me trans ideology is very close to the right by advocating cheap feminity performances, usually of a subservient sexual nature as equivalent to being a woman. Or those who rather have a trans child than an homosexual one.

So as a parent on the GC site said "when two such VERY polarized political viewpoints come together to discuss the dangers to girls presented by this misguided legislation, that is truly newsworthy!! No one can paper this over as a right-wing "bigot" event."

Getting to Mordor might be signalling the fight is heating up. Remaining focus and united on Women adult female and protecting the claim of trans on our gender no conforming children until they grow up and gain experience is paramount.

But what does “align yourself with bigots” mean?

It means not endorsing what they say; not joining their meetings, conferences, rallies; not accepting money or other kinds of support from them; not justifying their actions because they agree with you about a single issue. You know, not acting as though they are in some way an ally.

''Lisa - but the bottom line of no woman under a bus

Allying with US groups who are racist, homophobic and who are lobbying to remove abortions rights is throwing some women under a bus.''

I dont suppose it would make ANY difference at all to poin out that I have not suggested doing this, or done this, or that I would be unlikely to do this? While I would love the political spectrum to revolve around me and I do believe the world would be a better place if it did, I have gotten to adulthood and realised this is not likely to be achieved.

Has anyone done that here?

Am not sure the ability to identify that a woman is an adult human female is one that says a great deal about your poilitical persuasion. Going to be honest. I never expected sharing that with women to be the same as being permanent allies, or even friends..