Jean Hatchet, new blog post

[SugarPlumFairy99]

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-up-for-women.html

This blog post from Jean is eye-opening. Working alongside anti-abortion, hard right groups undermines decades of feminism.

Shame on Posie. I agree with Jean, I will also be sitting down for women.

I have only just RTFT. I think this thread represents the very best of FWR: women eloquently and intelligently arguing complex nuanced matters with strong self-assured opinions with openness to discussion. It’s the kind of thread that Harrop and his ilk just cannot fathom. They see this disagreement as a weakness when it’s actually a strength, because the disagreement is allowed to exist with no one telling anyone else to “die in a fire” or “take a bat wire covered baseball bat to the face” or assaulting someone on Hyde Park Corner.

It’s the very reason I’m here and I salute everyone.

You are so right Lisa.

Also that the word feminist mustn't actually be an identity as this is where identity politics starts to become an issue.

Look at us talking and disagreeing and talking again. You would almost think women were real human beings, that must come as a shock to those watching this thread.

So true! We just refuse to woman properly, don't we?

Posie has said she used to think she was on the left but this issue has opened her eyes to the fact that, as repeatedly said on this thread, one single issue such as this flies above all political leanings.

This is one issue based in biology.

I do understand and respect Jean's stance. My initial worries were the field day certain people would have with this but as you've all proved, it's possible to agree to disagree as the main central issue still exists.

Jean is perfectly entitled to choose not to engage with Posie’s allies, as are we all. But being nice hasn’t worked so well for women, no matter how good we try to be.

I think this is a bit patronising tbh.

Jean hasn't distanced herself because she wants to be 'nice'. She's distanced herself because she doesn't want to be associated with true transphobes and women haters and racists.

When we start doing this we immediately discredit the GC movement which is about safeguarding children and protecting womens rights. I'm not GC because I hate transpeople. I am GC because women and children matter and their rights are being eroded by the TRAs.
A lot of these far right and religious groups don't have any valid motive other than HATE. Associate with that at your peril.

The way you’re presenting this is as if the right-wing is just another branch of feminism. It is anti-feminist. That’s just a neutral observation- there is no way that that can even be debated because these groups openly state that they want women to conform to harmful gender roles. So it’s not in any way the same as choosing to focus on poor women or disabled women or whatever. And as a feminist I will damm well warn against people choosing to side with the enemy. Same as how I don’t suggest that POC should join the EDL (although maybe that counts as interacting with those who hold different viewpoints...)

This ^

If your feminism allows you to alienate and ignore marginalised women, then it's not feminism. (And cosying up to racist and homophobic groups IS alienating marginalised women).

If your feminism allows you to alienate and ignore marginalised women, then it's not feminism

We’ve moved on since that comment and shown that many women here are indeed marganalised and rather than being ignored we are all engaging, disagreeing, agreeing and finding that it’s ok to do all of that- in fact it’s important. I said it way back, but left v right politics is something men created. I’m not playing that game and I refuse to appoint a leader or split women into different hierarchies based on how oppressed they are.

Also, coming to this amazing thread, at the end of such a wonderful, articulate and positive discussion, and talking about what is or is not feminism ( as if there’s one right way to be feminist ), is so terribly insulting to all the women who’ve contributed so thoughtfully. It also spectacularly misses so many points in the thread.

Look at us talking and disagreeing and talking again. You would almost think women were real human beings, that must come as a shock to those watching this thread.

Absolutely this.

I thank all of the women on this thread who respectfully disagreed, agreed and considered everyone’s points. This is my favourite post ever on MN, and extremely important as far as the trans issue goes. I think it’s been vital to have this discussion ( it will go right over the heads of stalkers on stupid twitter ). It’s been great to see us all discuss the futility of left v right thinking, and so much has come out of this realisation. Women do not need to follow the politics of men. We are so much stronger and wiser than the TRA’s can possibly imagine.

Oxytocindeficient

Who made you the thread police?

I expressed an opinion, which I am perfectly entitled to do. If you have a problem with that - meh.

And I'll repeat it my opinion: anyone who thinks feminism means ignoring and alienating certain groups of women, is not a feminist. Anyone who is cosying up to racist and homophobic groups (who wish to remove the rights of women, incidentally) is not a feminist.

as if there’s one right way to be feminist

There is! Feminists are fighting to end the oppression of ALL women, not just those who share their class, ethnicity or sexuality.

Who made you the thread police?

Nobody. I said you were insulting us and I disagreed with your opinion, I’m allowed to do that too. I’m not going to engage with you any further though because this thread has been so amazing I’m not going to let someone ruin it.

I stand for Jean, for Posie, and for ALL women who are fighting for our rights. Right wing, left wing, religious, atheist, rich, poor... I don't care. We stand together.

It’s worth repeating

anyone who thinks feminism means ignoring and alienating certain groups of women, is not a feminist.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that feminism means this

Anyone who is cosying up to racist and homophobic groups (who wish to remove the rights of women, incidentally) is not a feminist.

I disagree with your use of 'cosying'. It implies much greater alignment and acceptance of each others positions than might be the case when women of different opinions work together.

I think this morning could do with some more Andrea Dworkin

Does the sun ask itself, “Am I good? Am I worthwhile? Is there enough of me?” No, it burns and it shines. Does the sun ask itself, “What does the moon think of me? How does Mars feel about me today?” No it burns, it shines. Does the sun ask itself, “Am I as big as other suns in other galaxies?” No, it burns, it shines.
Andrea Dworkin

I need this one printed on my wall!

Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy in behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are.
Andrea Dworkin

Oxytocindeficient

I didn't insult you, I didn't even speak to you until I responded to a post you made directly to me. And it's brilliant if you don't wish to engage with me, I have no interest in speaking to you either.

To other long term FWR posters - please have a think about what some of the new user names are posting, and why they might be posting such things.

I’ve been here since MN first started. Using different user names. Just wow.

The genius of any slave system is found in the dynamics which isolate slaves from each other, obscure the reality of a common condition, and make united rebellion against the oppressor inconceivable.
Andrea Dworkin

I get to decide if I have been insulted.

An example of how certain posters here are being interpreted:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3490075-Courting-the-far-right-is-wrong

You're playing right into their hands - they'll be on this thread grabbing screenshots and sharing them to prove what a bunch of bigots you are, that GC feminists are actually just a bunch of bigots, and removing any credibility we've managed to achieve. Well done! Big pat on the back!

And I still say feminism that excludes based on ethnicity or sexuality is not feminism.

I notice Jean has taken the blogpost down.

The facts of the matter are:

1)Posie talks about TR in the Feminist Current podcast and how he was able to exploit the gap left by Labour councils and the media, for racist ends. She has not expressed support for TR.

2. Posie, Venice and Julia Long are collaborating with the Women's Liberation Front in the US on an event. Speakers from Wolf have also been involved with events at the Heritage Foundation. PP, VA, & JL have apparently met/talked with people at the Heritage Foundation as part of their US trip. This is not endorsement or alignment.

On the basis of this TRAs will now be calling PP and the rest of us by association "far right". This is a nonsense.

You remember LGBT Labour condemning Ann Henderson's election to the NEC Equalities Committee because she had RTed a WPUK tweet and was branded a "transphobe".

This is like that. We see through that. And we should see through this.

Whoever made the point about illusion of cohesion I think is spot on. ll that happens when you pretend you are coherent in that way is you end up as a tribe behind one person doing same as happened with trans activists. Our strength was never ideological cohesion. Quite the opposite.

Yes, this ^

On the basis of this TRAs will now be calling PP and the rest of us by association "far right". This is a nonsense.

They have been saying that the whole time tbf!

A previous poster accused Posie of racism then admitted they had no evidence for this and then later flounced.
It kind of makes me wonder why I should believe any of the things I hear about her.

Some issues transcend other politics. I happen to think the definition (and attempted obliteration of) of the female sex class is one of those things.

If we applied this never speak to or work with the other side on any issue to other spheres of politics The Good Friday Agreement would never have happened.