Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harry the owl visited by police

999 replies

Imnobody4 · 23/01/2019 20:28

This whole hate speech/incident law is completely out of control. This is sinister.
Check out @HarryTheOwl’s Tweet: twitter.com/HarryTheOwl/status/1088144870991114241?s=09

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
hackmum · 25/01/2019 08:58

Morning, Harry! You've never really arrived until there's a Mumsnet thread about you. Smile

The Telegraph article was great. I loved the line 'Confirming that he had spoken to Mr Miller for 20 minutes, PC Gul told the Telegraph he made the remark about the foetus because he had “learned it on a training course ran by a transgender person last summer'.

I wonder which organisation ran that? Mesmac? Gires? Mermaids?

I don't know which is worse, PC Gul's ignorance of science, or his ignorance of the law.

Sexnotgender · 25/01/2019 09:03

Morning Harry!

Great piece in the paper this morning, peak transing swathes of people no doubt.

Ereshkigal · 25/01/2019 09:08

This is tantalising, from 2013, but the Hull Daily Mail no longer has it

twitter.com/TransMediaWatch/status/346588902997508097?s=20

Ereshkigal · 25/01/2019 09:10

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-22909307

Ereshkigal · 25/01/2019 09:17

The Charity in Humberside that this police officer received an MBE for his work with is called Gender Shift.

Apparently 300 police officers were trained by them in how to deal with a "sex change" way back in 2008 as one of their officers had transitioned.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-22909307

They also work in partnership with HMP Hull. They appear to be a well established local charity.

s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/imb-prod-storage-1ocod6bqky0vo/uploads/2018/12/Hull-2017-18.pdf

Ereshkigal · 25/01/2019 09:22

Just a bit of searching I did on the train. I can't find a website for "Gender Shift" though, which is strange for somewhere that's been going for at least 11 years. They sound more like a drop in centre type place.

Melroses · 25/01/2019 09:24

They seem to be steeped in this ideology. No wonder they are losing their grip on reality.

R0wantrees · 25/01/2019 09:26

Screenshot from twitter link by andyoldlabour

It isn't about a single police officer.

The understanding of what a hate crime is has gone very awry within the transgender community. Vulnerable people within the community have been misled/ manipulated (?) by both individual TRAs as well as influential organisations.

There are very serious issue with trans-rights activist trainers and the information they are giving public sector especially.

example:
Now retired Police Sergeant Gina Denham ( M2F) has been influential both within her local area of Essex & the police:

March 2018 Transgender Trend article:

Who Is Making Policy For Schools?
"The image above shows a presentation from a local Southend trans support group called Transpire, founded by a 54 year-old transsexual male called Gina Denham who teaches children that we all have a ‘gender identity’ which exists in the womb and is independent of both our socialisation and our biological sex. It is this ‘gender identity’ which makes us a boy or a girl and actually being male or female is irrelevant.

Transpire recently forced a school to change its policies in service of this ideology. Under the guise of ‘inclusion’ and ‘integration’ Gina Denham led an aggressive campaign to force a school in Rochford to remove sex-based rights and protections for its female students.

The trans pupil in question has been known by the Transpire group for two years so has presumably been thoroughly conditioned into the belief that he is literally female. As with Lily Madigan at his school in Kent, this one pupil has been afforded the power to change policy affecting all other pupils at the school with the help of a powerful transgender lobby.

The Transpire campaign began on Facebook:
The campaign continued on Twitter where King Edmund School Head Jonathan Osborn was bombarded with tweets of complaint, using the hashtag #BeInclusiveNotAbusive.

The pressure was increased by letting a few other people know about the ‘discrimination’ going on at King Edmund school, including the local BBC station, Stonewall, the DfE, Ofsted, Pink News and the local District Council
Adding LGBT Pride groups and the Prime Minister (continues)

The whole campaign, from start to finish, took 6 days. No time to conduct a proper impact assessment on pupils protected under the protected characteristic ‘sex’ as the school is legally obliged to do before changing policy. How is this not in breach of Equality law? The pupil involved is legally male, not female, and single-sex provisions are lawful under the Equality Act, for reasons of privacy. The example of school facilities used in the Equality and Human Rights Commission Technical Guidance (3.20) does not state that a pupil protected under ‘gender reassignment’ as transsexual should be allowed to use the facilities of the opposite sex:

The way in which school facilities are provided can lead to discrimination. Example: A school fails to provide appropriate changing facilities for a transsexual pupil and insists that the pupil uses the boys’ changing room even though she is now living as a girl. This could be indirect gender reassignment discrimination unless it can be objectively justified. A suitable alternative might be to allow the pupil to use private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space.

King Edmund School is praised for showing “flexibility and openness to change” whereas in fact they were coerced by a campaign designed to intimidate and shame them for their ‘abusive’ policy of ‘discrimination’ and ‘segregation’, clearly risking damage to the school’s reputation. One tweeter even likened it to ‘apartheid.’

Although the final tweet proclaims ‘Everyone wins!’ Denham freely admits in this BBC report that the victory is only for the transgender student and everyone else’s needs and rights are unimportant:

“It’s about giving people the opportunity to use the toilet they are comfortable with, not what the school is comfortable with.”

So who is Gina Denham and what gives this individual so much power that a school changes its whole policy to cater to the demands of just one pupil?

The schools presentation shown at the start of this post is part of Denham’s Transitioning for Beginners project which sells to children the idea that ‘changing your gender’ can be “fun but daunting!” (continues)

There are varying and complex reasons why different people want to transition to the opposite sex, with or without gender dysphoria; the term ‘transgender’ covers them all. Denham is a late-transitioning heterosexual male who followed a ‘macho’ career as a police sergeant, cross-dressed in private, is married and has fathered [her] own children, a profile most commonly associated with autogynephilia.

Denham’s online videos reveal [her] sense of absolute entitlement to the word ‘woman,’ a confidence no doubt built through a successful career as a male in a male-dominated profession. Having fathered [her] own children he has no qualms about advocating to children a model of understanding themselves which may well leave them infertile.

As the non-scientific claim of ‘innate gender identity’ becomes enshrined culturally and politically, schools seeking guidance may be inadvertently bringing in speakers who are the least qualified to help children and adolescents, but are given legitimacy by the umbrella term ‘transgender.’

Denham can have no idea of what it is actually like to be a teenage girl and no understanding of the factors which may encourage them to want to ‘transition.’ Nor can [she] have much sympathy for ‘pre-gay’ children who are the ones most likely to have a cross-sex identity in childhood, an identity they are overwhelmingly likely to grow out of if there were no adults around reinforcing it daily.

[S]He clearly has no compassion for girls, nor any understanding of the embarrassment and threat they may feel from being forced to share facilities with biologically male classmates. Given [her] experience as a police sergeant it is surprising that [she] has no compunction in advocating the blurring of boundaries between the sexes and no recognition of the protection and safeguarding issues this raises for girls. (continues)

www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16881389.dedicated-essex-police-officer-gina-denham-stepping-down-for-well-deserved-rr-after-30-years-service/

*article edited for guidelines here

Harry the owl visited by police
Ereshkigal · 25/01/2019 09:29

I think this Gender Shift place is worth digging into R0. They seem to be well established locally with ties to the Humberside police and local prison. They are listed as working with the prison in two of its annual reports.

LangCleg · 25/01/2019 09:31

Morning Harry!

Melroses · 25/01/2019 09:36

It is like Jess's ATH - concerned with changing laws..... and prisons.

Datun · 25/01/2019 09:38

He added: “Although none of the tweets were criminal, I said to Mr Miller that the limerick is the kind of thing that upsets the transgender community. I warned him that if it escalates we will have to take further action. If someone comes forward and says: ‘I’m the victim of a hate incident and it’s really upsetting me’, then we have to investigate”.

Will someone please ask Ian Huntley to contact the police.

Huntley is transgender now. And I, and thousands of other people have said all sorts of things that could apparently be constituted a hate incident according to Humberside police and PC Gul.

I want the Daily Telegraph and the Spectator to report on people claiming Ian Huntley does not have a woman's brain in a man's body, are committing a hate incident. I want them to quote the police saying that if people say Huntley getting to a female prison is a demonstration of privilege, they will be interviewed for wrong think.

If someone comes forward and says: I’m the victim of a hate incident and it’s really upsetting me’, then we have to investigate”

Does every criminal/time waster/rebel teenager, know this?

Bearing in mind, that according to equality law, you don't actually have to possess the characteristic that is legally protected, this should be interesting.

I'd also like the papers to report on whether the police refuse to interview people for wrong think about Ian/Nicola Huntley. And their reasoning.

feministfairy · 25/01/2019 09:38

Erishkigal

If this group works with prisons are they one of the groups that the prison service works with when placing male born sex offenders, rapists, paedophiles in women's prisons? It has always struck me as incredible that what are presumably pressure groups are invited to determine these placements.

What other category of prisoners gets their own lobby group involved in their placement?

Macareaux · 25/01/2019 09:40

The Torygraph refers to Mermaids as 'the controversial charity Mermaids'.

That is HUGE

It's the same tactic that Trump uses when he says "crooked Hillary" or "Lyin' Ted Cruz'. It creates an association and it becomes extremely difficult to shift.

If I didn't think Mermaids days were numbered before, I'm much more inclined to do so now.

Macareaux · 25/01/2019 09:44

Hey Harry!

Welcome to the fabled nest of vipers. Pull up a chair. You'll like it here.

As you can see we are a bunch of man-hating harpies. Gin or tea?

R0wantrees · 25/01/2019 09:50

July 2018
BBC article about Victoria Derbyshire show focussed on Mermaids charity. The two girls are 10 and 11 yrs old
(extract)
"So far, her mum, Jen, says, it's been about helping her fit in and dealing with the odd nasty comment from one classmate, who said she would never be a "proper" woman.

"I have to do everything I can as a mother to protect my child - to talk to her so she knows how to deal with those comments - but also to talk to the other child's parents so they can help their child understand," she explains.

"I didn't want that child punishing, I think it's more about them being talked to and helped understand the situation because what he was saying was wrong. She can be a woman and develop as a woman and grow up as a lady if that's what she wants to do."

Lily herself said her friends stood up for her, but she feels "not good, upset," when comments like that are made.

Both girls recently spent the weekend at a camp for trans children and their families, run by the Mermaids charity.

It was attended by around 30 children between the ages of six and 19, who spend time socialising or in workshops on bullying, self-esteem or how to report hate crimes.

The charity keeps the location secret - 17 times in the past six months its founder, Suzie Green, has reported abusive online messages to the police. Eight cases in the past year have been investigated as suspected hate crimes.

"We were being called paedophiles, we were being accused of being child abusers," she says. "In fact they even did a mock-up of a van with puppies and sweets on the side saying that Mermaids are trawling infant schools trying to pick up children to make them trans. It is ridiculous."

More than half young trans people say they have been the victim of hate crime in the last year, according to research from the Stonewall charity."

Susie Green (CEO Mermaids) describes reporting 17 situations she believed to be a crime. 9 of these the police did not investigate. 8 have been investigated as possible hate crimes.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-44661079
threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294478-Victoria-Derbyshire-show-today-transgender-children-buying-time-by-delaying-puberty

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452340-What-is-it-with-Mermaids-and-the-police

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3481589-posie-is-being-interviews-under-caution

Popchyk · 25/01/2019 09:51

Is there any explanation as to why Humberside police are involved from the point of view of geography?

The complainant lives "down south" according to PC Gul.

Harry does not live or work in the Humberside area.

So why are Humberside police involved?

Is the complainant a personal friend of PC Gul? Was PC Gul asked to warn Harry at the behest of another police officer?

R0wantrees · 25/01/2019 09:55

The Torygraph refers to Mermaids as 'the controversial charity Mermaids'.

Sunday Times article December 16th 2018,
'Child sex-change charity Mermaids handed £500,000 by national lottery
An ‘aggressive’ group that says under-16s should be allowed to alter their bodies medically plans to go nationwide'

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/child-sex-change-charity-handed-500-000-by-national-lottery-dvbt7t2kb?shareToken=cd8d6faad97cd9dd3fe3f16eb3810f45

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 25/01/2019 09:59

Just this so far, from the police commissioner from Humberside which fails to actually address the question asked

Keith Hunter
‏*@Keithhunter50*
No, the force has provided an explanation. I think it was a reasonably proportionate response to a report, following national guidance on such issues. U r of course permitted to disagree.

twitter.com/Keithhunter50/status/1088727019318398977

andyoldlabour · 25/01/2019 10:01

It is all about me, please listen to me, I crave attention.

www.facebook.com/BBCEssex/videos/sergeant-gina-denham-from-essex-police-tells-us-about-the-struggles-of-coming-ou/1016702151718565/

Stonewall Wales

www.stonewallcymru.org.uk/comeoutforLGBT/gina

This from Transgendertrend

"The whole campaign, from start to finish, took 6 days. No time to conduct a proper impact assessment on pupils protected under the protected characteristic ‘sex’ as the school is legally obliged to do before changing policy. How is this not in breach of Equality law? The pupil involved is legally male, not female, and single-sex provisions are lawful under the Equality Act, for reasons of privacy."

www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 25/01/2019 10:01

The question asked being why was Humberside police involved in the first place

Datun · 25/01/2019 10:04

"We were being called paedophiles, we were being accused of being child abusers," she says. "In fact they even did a mock-up of a van with puppies and sweets on the side saying that Mermaids are trawling infant schools trying to pick up children to make them trans. It is ridiculous."

Isn't that exactly what they did!?

Only it wasn't infant schools it was Pride.

They had puppies and sweets and sent out leaflets telling children to find them at pride.

Fishywishyhead · 25/01/2019 10:04

I worked for humberside police for many years and knew PC Gul through work. Humberside was as unwoke as it was possible to be! It just shows that the training courses these officers are doing are not independently certified for facts.

Fishywishyhead · 25/01/2019 10:06

And the complainant will be in the Humber side region which is why that force is responding.

Floisme · 25/01/2019 10:06

Good morning Harry, you dangerous thought criminal you. Thank you for doing this, hope you stick around. I see you've already been offered wine and gin so here's some Cake to go with it.