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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans activist shares their activism tactics

167 replies

OrangeJuicy · 23/01/2019 00:50

Emma G who declared war on Graham Linehan, and seemingly compared him to US neo-Nazis

See here:
mobile.twitter.com/Glinner/status/1087617063277993984

"Here's a thing I want
@Glinner
to know:

Graham, I am well-known for devastating the neo-Nazi movement in the US. I've helped swing US Military policy. People have gone to jail. They're afraid of me. They've kept me busy, but not for much longer.

And you're in my sights next."

mobile.twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/1087297309388562432

Has now written a thread on their activism tactics.

Which sound... familiar. I can understand why Graham may want the thread reported for encouraging harassment, but maybe it should stay up to show everyone their tactics. Let's look and learn.

Thread:

mobile.twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/1087785050857504769

archive.fo/eqCSq
(I think I've archived the whole thread there ?)

Since we're apparently being called Nazis, fascist, alt-right etc... Lol.
Or "other movements" .
Also, we have excellent reasoning.
Anyway, these are the tweets, pretty revealing:

  1. "There’s a playbook for undermining movements that works particularly well when those movements aren’t rooted in reason but in exclusion and mutuality. This playbook works for fascist groups, but also works for reflexive patriotism, hateful religiosity, and other movements."
  1. "The important thing to remember is you cannot debate in good faith with someone who will not debate in good faith. You cannot win on those terms."
  1. "Any debate is for the benefit of the unaffiliated external observer, so you have to frame the matter in the appropriate context, and that context should be tailored to the virtue centers of the audience. Exclusion and bigotry vs inclusion and civil rights."
  1. "Even still, you’re really not in a high-efficiency activity here. You’re far better off doing direct outreach."

  2. "Beyond that, there are a number of tools at your disposal. First, you recognize that their sense of identity is unity-focused, so your goal should be to sow distrust among the in-group to factionalize and divide."

  3. "Identifying and pressuring existing stress fractures is key. Frame the internal divisions and try to make them appear even larger."

  4. "Undermining trust also can take direct forms. I’ll leave it to your imagination here."

  5. "Next, remove the pillars of support of the movement. This means engaging with the things they rely on most heavily. This is hard, because this feels like an uphill battle."

  6. "If they rely on the media, you find inroads with the media. If they rely on the state, you (carefully and wisely) use the state. Turn their best tools against them. Undermining the trust in their foundations further exacerbates the internal divisions."

  7. "Then, shape their message as much ado about nothing. Seal off newcomers joining them because they look like zealots waging a very serious war against an absurd opponent."

  8. "While you do this, deny all forms of comfort. Undermine the sense of security in the spaces they feel most comfortable. Again, it’s left to your imagination here."

  9. "Each of these things will come with a pushback that will lead to a backlash. Don’t let that surprise you. Predict it and preempt it."

  10. "This allows you to start shaping the narrative of your choosing. Do not react. No story about your movement should come as a surprise. Preact. You should always have a response plan."

  11. "Finally, leave them in a state of perpetual uncertainty. Make sure they never have any confidence in what you know or what you’re about to do next. Always hold a promise of a bigger backlash against them. This takes time but they’ll learn after a few blows to be more cautious."

  12. "If they think you’ve got nothing, always have something. If you have something, make them think you’ve got nothing."

  13. "This is precisely the playbook that was implemented after UTR to good success. The effects weren’t immediate but they only took about 7 months to effectively neutralize several key alt right movements and leaders."

      1. I have no idea what they're talking about ( also got no idea what UTR is/was above, I included that because "7mnths to "neutralize") so not going to copy those here.
  14. "Fascistic movements think that unification around their identity is what makes them strong, but it’s not. It makes them weak. While cringing a bit by even brining this up, this is precisely how Russia exploited American identitarianism to manipulate our democracy."

I think we can recognise some of these tactics trans activists have employed. If we had outlined what they were doing like this, we'd probably be called paranoid conspiracy theorists. Thanks Emma, for laying it all out in the open.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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AngryAttackKittens · 23/01/2019 09:52

This person does sound sufficiently mentally unwell that they might well be a danger to anyone they become fixated on. Lucky for Glinner that they're not in the UK.

At some point we really need a public conversation about the way gender identity is being used as a proxy for fairly severe mental illness.

Racecardriver · 23/01/2019 09:52

This is a bit painful to read. Imagine thinking that you are sooo clever yet being so incredibly daft.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2019 09:59

Titania McGrath
‏*@TitaniaMcGrath*
Emily is a data scientist and a formidable hunter of Nazis.

In this tweet, she is directing her righteous ire at a sitcom writer who claims there are biological sex differences.

If Emily had been around in 1939, Hitler wouldn’t have even bothered trying.

Hey @EmilyGorcenski. You don’t know me, but I too am a mighty annihilator of Nazis.

Facists tremble at my merciless hashtags. They fear me, perhaps as much as they fear you.

You and I might be civilisation’s only hope.

Let’s grab a soy latte sometime and plan our next move. 🤙

Theswaggyotter · 23/01/2019 10:01

AAK completely agree with that, quite worrying what they are writing in terms of their own mental health and the risk they may pose to others

Ereshkigal · 23/01/2019 10:02

At some point we really need a public conversation about the way gender identity is being used as a proxy for fairly severe mental illness.

We do.

Ereshkigal · 23/01/2019 10:04

I'm not that bad with computers, but I don't have a Discord because I have absolutely no inclination to do so.

Ereshkigal · 23/01/2019 10:05

Sounds perfectly reasonable to them that all women are merely demons in disguise, just waiting to rip off our masks.

YesHalo

SkylightAndChandelier · 23/01/2019 10:11

Silly little boys think we are all "Moms" who don't use Discord and dont play video games. Not sure they realise whatba disparate "race" women are

Yeah, I can't be fucked with Discord either these days. It's just not pleasant.

I think the really hilarious thing is that instead we just meet up in person, and live-stream our speakers. There's literally nothing secretive going on here, it's all out there for anyone to see.

nauticant · 23/01/2019 10:13

Although this person makes me laugh (a bit), my impression is more this:

This person does sound sufficiently mentally unwell that they might well be a danger to anyone they become fixated on.

They're not someone to poke with a stick. If ignored chances are they'd move on to the next fixation to seek attention.

TheChampagneGalop · 23/01/2019 10:14

Undermine the sense of security in the spaces they feel most comfortable.

Yeah, we know this is exactly what those TRAs want to do with self-ID. It's not even a tactic it's the end results they want - access to women's private spaces IRL.

R0wantrees · 23/01/2019 10:22

Looks very much like narcissistic rage which can be demonstrated by people of both sexes and all gender identities.

The deliberate use of threats of violence, attempts to silence smear etc are male pattern behaviours

See Lundy Bancroft, Freedom Project etc

The politics, gender identities etc are incidental.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

userschmoozer · 23/01/2019 10:51

Which reminds me, someone posted recently that the Commission for Countering Extremism has a consultation open and wants to hear about your experiences and opinions of extremism.

''We are asking for information to build understanding and evidence on all forms of extremism and to examine our current responses to it.
This consultation closes at 11:45pm on 31 January 2019''
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/extremism-in-england-and-wales-call-for-evidence

AngryAttackKittens · 23/01/2019 10:51

Somehow I can't help but think of this.

QuietContraryMary · 23/01/2019 10:54

The 🥝👩‍🌾 have a thread on the fragrant Emily.

Ereshkigal · 23/01/2019 10:58

I think the really hilarious thing is that instead we just meet up in person, and live-stream our speakers. There's literally nothing secretive going on here, it's all out there for anyone to see.

YY. The only secret things are actually booking the venues, but that's due to them and their bullying.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 23/01/2019 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Freespeecher · 23/01/2019 11:52

"The important thing to remember is you cannot debate in good faith with someone who will not debate in good faith. You cannot win on those terms".

Emily has a lot in common with Owen Jones, such as a lack of self-awareness.

UnicornFarmer · 23/01/2019 12:01

Also is Emily too stupid to realise that most of the Mumsnet userbase has nothing to do with this one board, or does she.... just not care about the safety and privacy of women and their children? Or did they mean they were going to target a handful of users who post in threads E doesn't like?
Fighting percieved fascism with actual fascism isn't a great look. This is why I uninvolved myself with antifa.

WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 23/01/2019 12:10

To Emily: U ok hun?

Freespeecher · 23/01/2019 12:17

UnicornFarmer

Yes, depersonalising a group of people in order to justify righteous violence (or doxxing, harassment etc) is never a good luck.

When you were with Antifa did you find it to be a handful of true believers and a lot of well-meaning hangers-on? Or was it more along the lines of people with a lot of pent-up violence looking to unleash it in a socially acceptable way? Did they decide on action locally or was it coordinated across the country? And lastly, was it a particular event that made you leave or was it more of a cumulative effect?

(So many questions! I'm just intrigued as I've never come across a former Antifa type before so I'm interested in your perspective).

IfNotNowThenWhy · 23/01/2019 12:21

Hey calpop I thought Discord was an app that teens use to chat about gaming? I looked up how to block randoms on it, but there doesn't seem to be a "friends only" setting.. ( He has a list of actual friends gamer names).
Sorry for the derail, I just thought you might be able to help! ( my interest in gaming died with Sonic..)

UnicornFarmer · 23/01/2019 12:52

Hey Freespeecher,

Where I was, I found it to be a mix of all three. Some of them definitely got off on the idea of physically fighting people. I would probably fall more into your well-meaning hangers-on category. I didn't set out specifically to get involved but there is considerable overlap between them and various other groups I had more to do with.

I think my lot were mostly local action. Not much of that though.

I just got tired of them. Aside from the aforementioned fighty types, I found it attracted quite a lot of credulous idiots, to be frank. Mostly not doing anything.
I have a science degree and work in my industry and the anti-science beliefs a lot of these people held bothered me. That was regarding GMOs and related rather than trans issues btw. Those weren't really on my radar at the time. Corrections there were ignored or dismissed as distracting details. I was also trying to extricate myself from sex work at the time and I found the devotion to 'sex work is work' and being called a SWERF or a prude or 'white feminist when i disagreed etc rather infuriating. I just decided to distance myself from that whole side of things in the end.

calpop · 23/01/2019 12:57

Hi IfNotNow, yes it is, but as well as gamers (of all sexes and ages) there are also a lot of incel type adult males and other weirdos. As well as random, non-gaming servers (its a bit like reddit).

You can now block non-friends see here: support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/articles/217916488-Blocking-Privacy-Settings-

I would urge you to do this for teens as, like all corners of digital messaging, a few weirdos and predators can ruin things for all the genuine people just wanting to chat about their hobbies and interests.

calpop · 23/01/2019 12:59

both sexes I should say!

Damn my mom fingers!

OlennasWimple · 23/01/2019 12:59

One of the replies on that thread says even with just Mumsnet they talk in the same way nazis talk in their private discord like Mumsnet isn't open to basically everyone.

Because saying that we want the Girl Guides to remain a single sex organisation and only women have periods is clearly analogous to devising the Final Solution Hmm

There's a thread on Glinner on Kiwi Farms, by the way, which isn't exactly flattering to him but is far far worse about Emily

I also wonder if the "major international company" that Emily works for has a social media policy that approves of threats and harassment? twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/1087967082178850816