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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Widows Escape Committee 2- The Trans Widows Strike Back..

945 replies

TinselAngel · 06/01/2019 12:47

The previous thread is nearly full, so here is a shiny new one.

I'm thrilled that this took off enough to merit a second thread.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity" Hmm

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
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socialworker222 · 10/06/2019 18:10

Try this

socialworker222 · 10/06/2019 18:13

Sorry everyone it's unreadable will try later with a steady hand

TinselAngel · 10/06/2019 18:19

Looks like a good article from what I can read.

OP posts:
socialworker222 · 10/06/2019 19:58

Hope these are clearer. Sorry to faff.

socialworker222 · 10/06/2019 20:05

Point was, faffing aside, that it's out there, and any coverage of the non-celebratory experience seems helpful.

TinselAngel · 10/06/2019 20:43

It's very good. Thanks to the author of they lurk on here!

OP posts:
hoteltango · 10/06/2019 21:23

I haven't posted before, because I don't feel I have much to offer in the way of support. But I can transcribe. And I think it's important for anyone idly clicking on this topic to know that this is being discussed more and more in mainstream media. (But if the article goes online at Women&Home, a link would be better - excuse the typos, and I'm not sure I've got it all in the right order.)

While the media seems to be full of transgender stories with happy endings, it hasn’t been like that for my family. It feels to me as if there is little curiosity about the unhappy endings for people like my children and me, whose husband and father decided he was a woman, and who rapidly prioritised expressing his new identity over everything, and everyone else.

For every person who appears on daytime TV proclaiming they’ve accepted their transpartner, I wish them well – who who’s listening to the ones who aren’t happy about it?

There is very little research on relationship breakdown around transition, but it appears that about half of intimate relationships end either when a partner announces they are transgender or during the transition process. Thee women who don’t stay in these relationships discuss their experiences hidden online, for fear of retribution.

Many call themselves “transwidows” and they share very similar uncomfortable truths. Often, they’re regarded by trans activists as narrow-minded, intolerant people who didn’t love enough. They may even be labelled transphobic or TERFs (trans-exclusionary radical feminists), and subject to harassment and death threats. For that reason, it has taken me some time to summon the courage to write this piece.

My husband told me after 20 years of marriage and with teenage children, that he had decided he is a woman, and that he intended to dress as a woman, take a new name, and seek medical treatment in the near future. I was stunned.

I asked him if he was unhappy with or disgusted by his body, but he wasn’t. Had he felt depressed or suicidal? He hadn’t. he simply wanted to align his outward appearance with his “authentic” identity and didn’t envisage this should be a problem for our children or for me.

He said he had felt this way since childhood but “buried” it and “did the things men do” to try to keep his real feelings at bay. One of those things was marrying me and having our children. He said he had kept his plans from me for several years, as he wanted to be absolutely certain.

This means, of course, that he presented me with a fait accompli. His utter excitement and joy at finally coming out seemed to override my concerns about my or others’ reactions and rendered him seemingly oblivious to the possible consequences, including loss.

From that moment on, I learned I was not meant to feel this bad, let alone say it out loud. I was not meant to mind or be critical of his decision and its timing. I have come across transgender young people and have great compassion for them – those I have met would say I was non-judgemental, kind and helpful. But this felt entirely different, it was my husband. A father who, despite my attempts to avert this disaster, said he could not possibly delay it, or find a different way of containing or managing his feelings.
I was dazed. I didn’t feel I could tell anyone, I felt irrationally ashamed – that my marriage had hidden this secret for years, that I didn’t know, and that there might be something wrong with me in all this. I felt used, grief-stricken and angry. Our entire family history was thrown into doubt. How much of it was a lie? Had he known on our wedding day? I wish he had shared this from the start and wondered if that would have made this less shocking and painful. Maybe it would always have been terrible, although it might have lessened the secrecy and lies.

Night after night, he and I talked. He seemed detached, devoid of empathy for my distress and anger. It was as if he had already gone, changed, moved on. This only worsened my feelings of betrayal, as I suspected he’d been planning it for a very long time and telling me was the last thing on his list, rather than the first. I only seemed to connect with him when I pointed out that I was not a lesbian, which would make his expectation of my staying unfair, if he really was a woman. I am bewildered and fascinated by his view of what it means to be female. He is obsessed with the clothing, the make-up. He described to me a profoundly man’s-eye view of what it means to be a woman, and appears jealous of and desperate to conform to old-fashioned and sexist ideas of womanhood. He wants to wear skits and make-up and remove all his body hair. I find hidden women’s magazines with airbrushed images on the cover that we used to agree gave unhelpful messages to our teenage daughter. His interest feels fetishistic, a fantasy, a million miles from my life as a middle-aged woman.

I am uncomfortable with this as a feminist with a daughter, and I can’t imagine her growing up with that kind of role model living in our home, after trying to bring her up free from these stereotypical messages.

I believe his demands are unfair on our children as they have no choice or control over the change happening at close range. Transitioning can be a self-absorbing process and I questioned how that could work in a family home where we had thus far put our children’s needs before our own.

Secretly I worry about the children’s future relationships and trust in others’ reliability. I feel terribly sad that, no matter what he tells them, they may always feel they were not enough to stay for.

I decided that I couldn’t do it. And I didn’t have to do it. I went to see a counsellor. She reminded me that leaving gave my children an important message that women don’t have to stay with an intolerable situation or fear being alone.

I told my husband he had to leave and I made an appointment with a solicitor. She commented that I was the fourth woman she had seen in this position and expressed bewilderment at why, in every case, the man assumed their partner would stay with them.

Telling our teenagers the whole truth was the only part of the unfolding nightmare on which we agreed. He said he suspected they knew something was wrong. But they had absolutely no idea.
We called them downstairs one evening; they entered the room smiling, wondering what the surprise would be. It was the absolute worst moment of my life. We told them we were breaking up and they were shocked. He told them he wanted to be a woman. They cried for nearly an hour without speaking. I sat and cuddled them. It was devastating. It would be many months before they were able to bring themselves to talk about it.

He moved out of the family home. He didn’t want to take any wedding photos or pictures of the children when they were small. I found this ridiculously hurtful, and took it as proof that we didn’t matter any more and were being discarded for his new identity.
I wonder if his memories of us as a family belong to someone who no longer exists. It felt as if he was destroying someone we loved. A “transwidow” online says “…it’s like a strange woman just upped and murdered your husband one night, then moved in and expected you to not only be in love with them, but also to celebrate the death of your spouse with them.”

My husband promised with our solicitors that he wouldn’t change his appearance around the children or have “female” paraphernalia on show at his new house when they visited for an agreed period, so that we could work together to talk with and prepare them for his transition. I assumed he would work with me to help them through it slowly and carefully.

But he broke those promises. He didn’t wait, nor did he talk to the children at any point. He just went ahead. They visited for a few months, then started to make excuses not to go. One morning when they were due to visit, they broke down and were terribly, shockingly distressed. They told me they no longer wanted to see him.

It emerged he’d been dressing as a woman with no warning, preparation or discussion, and there had been women’s clothes and makeup all around his house. One of the children had slept in a room with a rail of “mini skirts and sequin dresses”, they felt uneasy, hurt and angry. They worry that their peers will call them transphobic if they discover they have a trans father whom they opted to stop seeing. But they took back control, stopped going and said they felt relieved.

We are now all estranged from this person. We thought we were getting “Dad in a dress”, but we got a new person who behaved in ways that the man we knew and loved never did.

There is no happy ending. And unfortunately we are not alone.

socialworker222 · 10/06/2019 21:42

This is fantastic hotel... Just how fast can you type?! Thanks so much for doing this so it's easier to read

Mumfun · 10/06/2019 21:55

Thanks Hotel And thanks to Woman and Home for telling the unvarnished truth!

And solidarity with all you Trans widows. I wish you strength in navigating to your new lives and peace in them!

TinselAngel · 10/06/2019 23:20

Thanks Hotel. Good work Smile

OP posts:
moimichme · 11/06/2019 06:42

That is a wonderful article and I'm so glad the magazine was brave enough to print it. Thank you very much Hotel for the transcription.

socialworker222 · 11/06/2019 08:53

I had a look to see if they have a Letters page, as we should all contact them to say well done for publishing something from this point of view... I don't think they do, but no doubt they will be bombarded by outrage from the brave and stunning ones.

DrSusan · 11/06/2019 10:34

Heartbreaking article. Very interesting comments from the counsellor and especially the solicitor.

I don't know anything about the magazine and its usual practice regarding which articles appear online and which don't but I'm assuming it would be reasonable to conclude that this is not online to avoid a pile on by the usual suspects.

Mumfun · 11/06/2019 10:48

Transwidows on Twitter now has the article up:twitter.com/transwidows/status/1138169498572341250

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2019 10:59

The psychologist's take is bloody awful.

"Her ex-behaviour is likely a shell - an unconsciously developed armour to defend himself against the guilt of the transition and the devastation that it's wreaking. His bad behaviour isn't down to feeling nothing, but to feeling overwhelmed."

"There are no easy solutions here. Neither can simply grit their teeth and reconcile. Yet professional support could help the writer express and resolve her anger, help her ex-husband admit and resolve his guilt."

Not a WORD about the impact on the children and how the father has had complete disregard for his children. Thats not about 'reconciling' something. That about being a selfish bastard who hasn't once considered how his kids might cope. Nope thats left up to the mother to consider and pick up the pieces from - and she is supposed to still 'reconcile her anger'.

Fuck off.

These men don't consider ANYONE but themselves. And as adults with responsibilities to their children its not good enough. No matter how much pain they are in.

socialworker222 · 11/06/2019 11:34

Couldn't agree more. Although I liked her use of his 'bad behaviour' and 'leaving badly'. Sadly she assumes he feels guilt, which I certainly didn't experience with my ex.... Agree that the emphasis on what we expect from parents (I expect higher standards of behaviour regarding children, and putting them first, than for 'just' adults) is missing. Depend.org say they are 'supporting the families and friends of trans people in the UK'.. anyone know if they are yet another trans organisation tacking on relatives to their 'support' role, or genuinely just for that group? We've talked on here before about how trans organisations appear to be all there is for people unhappy/not wanting to stay...?

WifeOfTiresias · 11/06/2019 13:47

Social, I am registered with Depend.org. Haven't posted much with them but they do seem to be genuinely an organisation for partners. Trans people are specifically barred from joining. Haven't posted much with them but the emphasis is on support in whatever decision you make and there is a good mix of those who left and those who stayed. Was a bit skewed towards staying together when I first joined but the balance seems to have shifted a bit recently.

On the downside, they did at one point have Mermaids on their resources list but I notice they have now been removed.

Cuntysnark · 11/06/2019 14:32

I’ve bought the magazine purely for that article. Brave woman. And thank you Woman & Home. I’m out for an hour or so now but will post the contact details I found when I get back home.

QuinnMovesOn · 11/06/2019 18:04

Good article, thanks for posting. I do find it appalling how so many of our stories are exactly the same...

  • Completely uncaring about effects on spouse or children
  • Demanding support and expecting the spouse to stay no matter how untrustworthy they have become
  • No compromise or willingness to slow down to make it easier for the partner
  • Continuous lying, even about obvious studr
  • Becoming a caricature of what they think it means to be a woman (lots of makeup, hair removal, stupid clothing choices)
  • Extreme fiscal irresponsibility

Probably could add more to the list...

TinselAngel · 11/06/2019 20:10

I'm advised Woman and HOME's email address is:

w&[email protected]

if anybody wants to thank them.

OP posts:
imablackstarnotapopstar · 11/06/2019 22:04

Last I know it's not easy and not judging honestly. I was stuck for years. Just trying to empower you to take back control when you can.

imablackstarnotapopstar · 11/06/2019 22:14

A great article - bugger the psychologist if she thinks she understands him. She will not have faced anything like this despite her training. This is narcissistic abuse of women and children will be bewildering to her unless she has worked with transwidows.

My psychotherapist said she is working with more and more women who suffered abuse from narc men who suddenly decided they were a WOMAN and their wife merely a "cis-woman" and therefore irrelevant.

TinselAngel · 12/06/2019 12:02

I'm really annoyed at the current thread in AIBU -"To wonder how you would feel if you found out your DP cross dressed?"
Is trivialising the threads posted by women going through this issue, but I'm probably being over sensitive, this is after all, a discussion forum.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 12/06/2019 12:34

Tinsel, it's a thread which is simply naive.

Was it just about clothes for any of you? That's just it. What other people think it's about, isn't necessarily the case.

Trying to empathise v actually being in that situation are two different things. When confronted with any reality people do differently to what they said they might before, because reality does not match up with expectations.

I'd see it in that way; people speculating about a hypothetical situation which they only have a small slice of understanding of, rather than a lived emersive experience of.

You only know what you'd do in any situation when you are actually in that situation really.

That's the trouble.

Lasttobepickedatgames · 12/06/2019 13:19

Tinsel just had a look now and it's bloody naive. If it was just the clothing we wouldn't all be in this horrible situation. 'Kink shaming' is apparently a thing ( I'd say personal boundaries rather than 'Kink shaming')

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