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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Widows Escape Committee 2- The Trans Widows Strike Back..

945 replies

TinselAngel · 06/01/2019 12:47

The previous thread is nearly full, so here is a shiny new one.

I'm thrilled that this took off enough to merit a second thread.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity" Hmm

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason.
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Thread gallery
13
TinselAngel · 19/02/2019 22:32

Fucking hell, curse away. You've earned it.

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Notahandmaid · 20/02/2019 00:30

Hi
I’m not a trans widow but have a friend who, at a ripe old age, has decided that he is a trans woman. He has announced that he has been a woman all his life and was in denial. I have known this person for well over a decade and my view is that this is all a way of attention seeking for him or possibly he is an AGP.

He is married to his second wife and as far as I know she is supporting him with his transition (he is going for it hell for leather). I did contact his wife when he first announced that he was now living as a trans woman but she didn’t reply. I think I am persona non-grata with them now as he referred to me as an ‘extreme feminist’.

I don’t know how she is putting up with it. It all seems so narcissistic and self-absorbed and selfish of him. I feel dreadfully sorry for her. I listened to the interview on R4 from January (mentioned on the first page of this thread) with the woman who was married to the trans woman. I have also read up about the experiences and inner conflicts that wives go through. I recognise the boundary pushing and the narcissism.

I can’t accept my friend like this because I feel he is either having a breakdown or is doing it for attention. My attempts to reach out to him early on were rebuffed and I don’t feel I can support him with his transition so I have effectively lost a friend.

If I can feel this upset about it all, I don’t know how his wife is coping.

Sorry not to add anything useful on here. I guess I just wanted to say that reading your experiences has helped me and that it makes me feel as if I’m not a horrible person or going mad when everyone else around me seems to be.

Datun · 20/02/2019 00:50

Older, I could cry reading your posts. He is torturing you.thanks

Yes this. And subsequent posts.

It's as if these men have something missing. Some fundamental lack of sight.

And yes helen you can fucking curse your heart out.

Flowers
TinselAngel · 20/02/2019 17:38

I've suspect one day my ex will be on telly or write a book. I've always dreaded it for how exposed it might make my DD feel.

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Italiangreyhound · 20/02/2019 19:22

Hi Helen31a I'm not a trans widow but they lurk around here occasionally and make the tea.

Brew

Welcome.

Italiangreyhound · 20/02/2019 19:23

They let me lurk...

Clearly I am not here for my typing skills!

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 21/02/2019 07:51

Sending love having watched The Making of Me. I think they are covering the devastation of the wives well. My heart goes out to them. And you all.

Such a selfish way to be. And the agp come across as completely ridiculous.

TinselAngel · 21/02/2019 12:08

@Notahandmaid thanks for sharing. It's always interesting to hear the perspective of people who are affected by this issue.

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TinselAngel · 22/02/2019 13:12

Older I've found a link to an online PDF of Lundy Bancroft:

www.pdf-archive.com/2016/09/25/why-does-he-do-that-domestic-violence/why-does-he-do-that-domestic-violence.pdf

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Wizbit4Lyfe · 22/02/2019 13:36

Hi everyone. I was signposted here by some lovely folk on Twitter. I've been reading all your stories and it makes me want to cry. Partly out of relief and partly because I'm just so angry and frustrated over this whole thing. Firstly, I need to explain I am not a transwidow myself, but my best friend (since we were 5 years old) became one a few years ago. I want to support her as best I can without being some awful pushy busybody type person. But I'm not really sure how to go about it. I will tell you her story.

She was married to someone who decided they were trans many years into their relationship. He was the first 'conventional' person she'd ever hooked up with. Her usual type were jobless druggies or weird conspiracy theorist hermit types (she used to be a bit of a druggie herself, but cleaned herself up and got a job). This guy was a well-respected, successful business man who had his own flat in a very expensive area. She moved in with him and we all thought she'd finally landed on her feet.

One day she phoned me up in tears telling me she was pregnant (unplanned) and she was terrified what he would say or do. Turned out he had been abusive (verbally and physically) to her in the past whenever she made plans to go out with friends or do anything which didn't involve him (this was the first I'd heard about this) and she thought her pregnancy news would not go down well. In fact, when she did tell him about it, he insisted she keep the baby and they could settle down as a family. They were, after all, both earning good money and could more than afford it. She was ecstatic and, despite the abuse, she went ahead with it.

Fast forward to a later stage in her pregnancy and she'd been tidying the house of clutter to make way for their new arrival. To her surprise, she found a suitcase of sexy lingerie and other women's clothes under the bed. Since it was not hers, she immediately suspected her husband of cheating and confronted him about it when he got home from work. He broke down in tears and told her he had a secret fetish for dressing in women's clothing and pretending to be a woman. He begged her to forgive him and insisted he was not gay, and doesn't really want to be a women: it's just a fetish. He said that he'd stop doing it and threw all the clothes away. She, of course, believed him.

A few months after the birth he'd become very distant and was refusing to help with the baby and housework, saying it was her 'job' as a woman (at this point she's on maternity leave from a very well-paid job in a career she's worked very hard to achieve since her shaky start in life). He also started insisting that she should give up her job entirely and become a full time stay-at-home mum, which she'd never wanted to do. Heartbreakingly, she agreed.

Despite this, she was not entirely naive, and suspected his distant behaviour was because he was cheating. And so, she decided to search the house for evidence of some discretion. She discovered another suitcase hidden away in the wardrobe. Somewhat unsurprisingly, it was full of sexy lingerie and women's clothes.

After confronting him this time, however, he was not apologetic. He blamed her for not accepting him and forcing him to live a lie. This, despite the fact he'd never mentioned anything about it since he was discovered the first time. After days of arguing she ended up agreeing that they can work things out and that he can 'explore' this side of himself, but she insisted that she be a part of it and that he no longer hides it from her. He was very happy with this arrangement. And so, she painted his nails, did his makeup, and went clothes shopping with him for dresses.

It continued like this for a few months. Although she claimed it was working out, there was no sincerity in her voice when we spoke about it. I could tell she was miserable. And then one night it escalated. He came home drunk from a night out with 'the girls' (to which she was explicitly told she was not invited) and demanded she had sex with him while he was dressed in full drag. She refused. He forced himself on her anyway. This became a regular thing. Every conversation I had with her from then on was just her crying down the phone. But she wouldn't leave him. I felt completely helpless.

Eventually she ended up with a STD and confronted him about cheating. He admitted that he'd joined several dating sites to find gay men and MtF trans people to have sex with, and had hooked up with several over the past year. He then broke the news to her that he'd decided to fully transition into a woman and no longer wanted to be with her.

He threw her and their child out of the flat and, with no job and no money of her own, she had no choice but to move back in with her mum in a town miles across the country.

Afterward, she still saw him when she dropped off their daughter for visits (he never comes to pick her up, by the way). This eventually ended up in a row after a time he opened the door dressed as 'Abigail' (much to the shock of his daughter who had -until that moment- no clue he did this). He didn't even have the decency to discuss with her how they would tell their child about his transitioning. His reaction to being confronted with my friends (entirely justified) anger over this was to set up Facebook and Twitter profiles as his new 'persona' and to slag her off to all his newfound online trans community. Random strangers (many claiming to be MtF trans people) harassed her with emails and Facebook messages about what a bigot she was until she eventually deleted all her social media profiles.

Despite all this, she still visits him (for their daughter's sake, she says). She even drove him to the hospital for one of his trans-related appointments. And still he continues to treat her like a piece of shit for it and she's utterly miserable.

This is a broad and probably impossible question, but is there anything I can do to help? I don't want to be an interfering bitch, and I know ultimately it's all up to her. But as people who have been in similar situations, what would you have liked your friends to do? What kind of support would have been welcome? And what would be a big obvious no-no?

Sorry this is long, I just can't believe the relief of finding this after years of worrying about her and not realising her situation was shared with so many. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Datun · 22/02/2019 13:58

Wizbit4Lyfe

Just offering you a handhold and support and congratulations for coming here. You sound like a great friend.

I will leave the others to advise you, though. As it is their experience which will be invaluable to you.

Well done.

Flowers
TinselAngel · 22/02/2019 16:40

Hi Wizbit. She's lucky to have such a good friend.

What can you do to help? I split with my ex around the same time as your friend and like her, at the time I couldn't find any online support for wives who did not want to wholeheartedly support their husband's transition.

I think the main difference between this and any other relationship in which there is a betrayal is the feeling of being totally alone. I'm sure it would help her to know that there are other women in her situation and that many of them are really bloody angry about what they have been put through. We're not all skipping off into the sunset in new and happy "lesbian" relationships.

Does she know there is a whole, rising gender critical feminist movement that wholeheartedly supports the rights of women not to put up with this shit?

If she doesn't want to get involved online after her previous experiences, you could buy her a copy of Christine Benvenuto's book, which is a very eloquent account of refusing to go along with a partner's transition in the face of hostile responses from those she thought would support you.

She has been through terrible trauma. Has she had any counselling to come to terms with what has happened? You could encourage this. Although some trans widows have struggled to find supportive therapists.

In my opinion she needs to draw very clear boundaries with her ex so that she can move on with her life. She needs to stop the arms length facilitation and wife work. I wonder if she does this because her self esteem is shot to pieces?Maybe she feels guilty about not being able to put up with his behaviour?

These are just my initial thoughts, I hope some of it is helpful.

I had quite a lot of counselling and a shed load of anti depressants at the time of my break up.

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Senterkitten · 22/02/2019 23:33

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I've been married for almost 17 years. My spouse is mtf, and pretty much gay. I don't have anyone to talk to. Most support groups are for spouses that fully support the trans idea. I'm angry, and so depressed over all this. I used to be happy, and now I hate life. I feel like I failed my kids, I failed myself. Why is "becoming" a woman more important than us?

TinselAngel · 22/02/2019 23:59

Hi @Senterkitten How did you find us?

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Cadanita1 · 23/02/2019 00:07

Hi Senterkitten, I know exactly where you are coming from.

Italiangreyhound · 23/02/2019 00:27

Senterkitten you absolutely did not fail your kids. Can I ask roughly how old they are? Are you and your husband splitting up?

Thanks
Senterkitten · 23/02/2019 01:26

I found you guys from GC Reddit. I'm financially dependant on my spouse at the time, and we are expecting a baby in a few months. I don't see a future anymore. I've been a stay at home mom for 15 years, no schooling. I plan to work on myself so I can finally take care of myself.

moimichme · 23/02/2019 09:07

Senterkitten That's really tough, I'm so sorry. Flowers

Definitely a good strategy to try and think a bit selfishly about plans for how to get out if you need to. Do you have a way to put even small amounts of money aside, to provide a little cushion if (heaven forbid) you needed it at short notice? Do you have a family member or close friend you could talk to about what is going on? We're of course here if you need someone to listen who will believe you.

TinselAngel · 23/02/2019 10:00

Why is "becoming" a woman more important than us?

This tortured me at the time of my marriage breakdown. How could the person who had previously told me I was the love of his life do this to me and his daughter?

I think they must feel a cognitive dissonance about this too and to deal with it they have to turn us into the bad guys in the situation- so they resent us not being supportive enough, and that starts to justify their actions even more. We don't love the "real" them, we never did. So they don't owe us anything. Hope that makes sense?

Although I could be over complicating it, and a more simple explanation is - because they're selfish bastards.

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TinselAngel · 23/02/2019 10:05

They're continuously rewriting history to justify their own actions. My ex said on Twitter that he stood in the chapel at our wedding knowing he shouldn't go through with it (that was nice to read), but at the time he said the exact opposite to me, and I know he meant it.

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Cadanita1 · 23/02/2019 12:49

Hi everyone. I don't know how I managed it, must have signed into old mumsnet account. Used to be Helen31a now Cadanita1. Dear God just like Kevin to Karen. Sorry for the confusion.

Cadanita1 · 23/02/2019 12:56

Senterkitten I'm 52, I was married for almost 25 years before I knew the truth. We had a business together and I'm totally dependent on him. He ran our business into the ground and used it's embers to build the foundation for his new one. My kids are 28, 27, 19 and 18. Thank God they are up. How are you coping with a new baby on the way? WE CARE AND WE UNDERSTAND. If you ever need to talk PM me x

Cadanita1 · 23/02/2019 13:02

TinselAngel, love the name btw. I've read loads of books to try and understand but Narcissism plays a huge part. In the past they would have hidden in a closet but now everything has become so PC that normal standards of decency have been thrown out with the baby. They have so many people telling them they are right and dont see or care about the suffering they cause because those people don't see the innocent silent victims. I think it's time we had our chance to speak out. To bury the bastards in their frilly knickers, high heels and lipstick!!!

socialworker222 · 23/02/2019 18:33

Wizbit suggest you focus on supporting yr friend and letting her know she can rely on you BUT letting her know you're concerned by his abusive behaviour (regardless of gender crap) and impact on her. She can be gently told his behaviour is not okay. And directed to safe places like thiz where women share how hard it is and how they started to get free. I would remind her if you remove the gender stuff his behaviour is beyond unacceptable. But sometimes you have to just support and accompany and nudge/remind a friend they don't have to put up with it. So hard for you too.0

socialworker222 · 23/02/2019 18:37

Plus what helped me was the friends who focussed on me. One said 'I'm here for... and the kids and that's my focus (not him). It helped they took little interest in the stuff he did and really made me feel they had me and my kids at the fro t of their minds (esp where they were 'his' friends who were husbands of my friends). So try to focus on her and keep trans out of it. But Christ what a sh**. I read some of these stories and realize I was lucky to get out quickly.

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