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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Urinals should be removed..

150 replies

IamThereforeIdontIdentify · 02/01/2019 16:34

..because not all men have penises. They may be triggering to some trans men. Only sit down toilets in individual cubicles in men's toilets.

Men queuing to pee at football matches and down the pub might bring things into focus for those who are largely unaffected by all this "move aside" business.

And tbh I'd LOVE to see all the woke bros queuing and telling other men that it's discriminatory for them to use urinals because not every man has a penis and it's bigoted for them to complain...

Wink
OP posts:
octoberfarm · 03/01/2019 00:17

I wonder whether any of you have any idea how unpleasant you sound. This thread reads like a bunch of teenage bullies laughing at people who are different to them.

EJennings · 03/01/2019 00:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Infinity11 · 03/01/2019 00:52

Such nasty women.. consider us told off tut tut Hmm

octoberfarm · 03/01/2019 00:58

You're taking the horrible actions of the vast, vast minority of transwomen and using it as license to be awful to the rest of the trans folk who are just trying to live their lives as everyone else does. It's like taking any minute segment of a minority and acting like they're all like that. I'm not telling anyone off, I just think I'd be horrified if my kids acted like any of you grown women are to other people.

PositivelyPERF · 03/01/2019 03:02

trans folk You mean people. Trying to make adults sound like whimsical characters doesn’t work here.

I used to worry about being ‘nice’, but have taken so much verbal abuse and threats of being violently attacked by some of your ‘trans folk’ for wanting to talk about the protection of women and girls. Funny how all the empathy is only supposed to flow one way, isn’t it?

I’ve plenty of sympathy and respect for transsexuals, as they ‘commit’ to trying to live as they perceive their chosen ‘gender’ live. Not so much sympathy for the aggressive minority you speak of.

Apollo440 · 03/01/2019 03:19

octoberfarm, Once upon a time when it was only old style transsexuals suffering from gender dysphoria, then it wasn't a problem and women were overwhelmingly supportive. The push for self id has changed the landscape. According to Stonewall there are 500,000 people under their trans umbrella and they openly admit this includes cross dressers and those who get a sexual thrill out of dressing as women. By simply declaring 'I am a woman' they want the right to access all areas reserved for women. The vast majority will not take hormones or undergo sex reassignment surgery. Are you so really lacking in imagination to the problems this might cause or who might take advantage ? Indeed the problems have already started.
The language used in this thread is a parody of the language and arguments used by trans activists to demand access to areas that are single sex. Almost without exception it is men demanding access to women's spaces so suggesting that they apply the same criteria to men's spaces to accommodate transmen is reductio ad absurdum.

And let's not get started on giving puberty blockers to children. 100% child abuse. This poisonous ideology needs to be called out now.

Vegilante · 03/01/2019 04:26

I wonder whether any of you have any idea how unpleasant you sound. This thread reads like a bunch of teenage bullies laughing at people who are different to them.

I wonder whether any male "transgender" men's rights activists have any idea how unpleasant, indeed hateful, they sound. Their words and actions read like a bunch of misogynistic bullies encroaching & perving on women who are biologically different to them.

See, I fixed that for you, October!

womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/01/2019 06:27

Bear with me - You’re all onto something and I’m just trying to catch up... so I’m thinking that having a willy and being proud of it is problematic to those who have one and would rather not or those who haven’t one and want one. Do we need to cover them all up? Just p-teasing Grin

Seriously would willy-binders stop manspreading?

CosmicCanary · 03/01/2019 07:30

This thread only highlights the absurdity of the trans rhetoric.
Anything female related is bad/transphobic/literal violence and absolutely allowed to be ripped apart and changed. The second you change it to anything male related it looks ridiculous and is met with resistance.

It is female spaces and services that are being targeted and the reason for that is because it is males at the helm pushing for their wants and demands.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 03/01/2019 07:42

This thread reads like a bunch of teenage bullies laughing at people who are different to them.

This comment made me laugh.

Somewhere, there are urinals that identify as toilets and you terfy terf lot are denying them their existence - which is literal violence, I tell you - literal - by basing this on their vitreousness. If you would just look into their souls - the way a certain MP can - you would be able to look past their porcelain exteriors to see that they have toilet brains.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/01/2019 07:43

I wonder whether any of you have any idea how unpleasant you sound. This thread reads like a bunch of teenage bullies laughing at people who are different to them.

I think EVERY poster here knows that. It is being done quite DELIBERATELY. EVERY post is a re-write in the vein of a TRA/MRA post/tweet etc. EVERY post holds up a mirror to the threats and bullying many GC women meet daily, in real life and on all social media platforms.

Somehow though you only see the nastiness when it is women poking fun at men. Why is that, do you think?

FlyingOink · 03/01/2019 07:43

Seriously would willy-binders stop manspreading?
Don't they already have pull on ladybits? Confused Let's not encourage any more of that...

Floisme · 03/01/2019 08:27

Oh please spare us the ‘Women, be nice’ rhetoric. It doesn’t work on here. Yes we are taking the piss. Literally. Out of men. More please.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/01/2019 09:34

october

I know people are joking about this

But I honestly dont see the problem with getting rid of urinals

It must be very difficult to be a transman and go to the gents and find that its all urinals and you haven't for one reason or other got the correct equipment

I personally see it as being worse as being a transwoman because they can use a cubicle (im not getting to the argument about whether they should go into the ladies) because it doesn't matter whether they have a penis or not

And i know people are thinking silly Rufus...but i dont care. This thread taken at its 'word' is perfectly valid

So if people are pissing about discussing the ladies HAVING to change so tha they aren't transphobic then fair is fucking fair...urinals are the most transphobic bogs

ChewyLouie · 03/01/2019 10:49

October
Good effort but the victim card doesn’t work at all with thread, come back with another angle that doesn’t look quite so desperate.
Your support for the lovely, wee trans folk seems to be for trans women only but we are told they are traumatised by the term menstruation, pregnant women, breastfeeding. It is you who has seen laughter and bullying here, when people are applying the same nonsense to support transmen, the majority of whom are forced to see men using urinals, condom dispensers when they can’t use either even though they are men. Supirt transmen, join the remove the urinals campaign and stand up for ‘women who are men who can’t stand up to pee but are forced to watch other men stand up and use their privilege to pee.’
Men are women, women are men. The earth is flat and you fall off when you get to the horizon.

octoberfarm · 03/01/2019 10:50

@PositivelyPERF I say folk when I talk about anyone, but you're right, I should have said trans people. I'm sorry you've been met with such verbal abuse, and I obviously wouldn't condone that from anyone as @Floisme downthread implied - I'm not horrified because you're women mocking trans people, I'm horrified because you're people mocking trans people, and it literally did read to me like a bunch of bullies piling on.

I'm a woman, too. But I genuinely believe that you're taking the absolute minority of people using this as an opportunity to exploit and acting as if it's going to be a daily occurrence. it's just become a hysteria-driven echo chamber. I live somewhere where trans people have been using bathrooms that match their gender identity for decades - if it was going to cause a mass exodus of men posing as women to assault women, we'd know by now. Allowing transgender people to use the bathroom that works for them doesn't legitimize violence in any way - those behaviors are and will continue to be against the law for anyone. No-one wants that to be any different.

But advocates and law enforcement alike in cities and areas that have trans-inclusive policies agree that there hasn't been an increase in people attacking anyone, or using access to bathrooms to attack. It just isn't happening with the frequency you're implying it will - or really at all. And so whilst you're all worrying about protecting yourselves from the odd man that thinks this might be a good "in" for attacking women, you're denying normal, kind, genuine people who are struggling the right to live like anyone else, without abuse or bullying or feeling unsafe because of who they are. There's a reason trans suicide rates are so high. If the rare man who does plan on using that as an in is going to attack women this way, he'd be doing it anyway. A rule saying he can use a woman's bathroom isn't going to make the difference in him going and attacking a woman - there's no one policing the door right now to stop him. If he wanted to attack a woman, he'd attack a woman, it's not inclusive laws that are going to encourage him.

@CosmicCanary I'm not meeting this with resistance because it's changing something to do with men, and frankly I couldn't give two hoots as to whether men have to have toilets and queue a little longer. It was the tone of the thread I took issue with - I'd be resisting whether it was men's spaces you were talking about or women's.

@CuriousaboutSamphire The idea that you all know how unpleasant you sound because you're just "doing what they're doing" doing doesn't make it any better. If you know how unpleasant it feels, why on earth would you want to be like that? It's like being bullied and deciding you want to be the bully.

I understand that you guys are fighting back because you feel like people are taking away your rightful spaces, but I think that's what the people on the other side are doing too. People on either side of the debate threatening violence should absolutely be held accountable, but so should anyone going out of their way to knowingly make someone feel inferior or mocked for being who they are. People don't choose to be trans, they just are. It's not some giant conspiracy by men to take over all women's spaces. It's people trying to survive in a world that already attacks them, in a way that makes their lives live-able and bearable.

octoberfarm · 03/01/2019 10:58

@ChewyLouie my support is for both transwomen and transmen. Of all the trans people I have met, I have literally never encountered any of them complaining about things like the offensiveness of menstruation. You're taking something that a few trans people in a whole world of trans people have said and are holding it as gospel for all trans people. The trans people I've met just want equal rights, and to be treated like humans. Just like the KKK isn't representative of all Christians, taking the few people that are saying one thing doesn't mean everyone's saying it. This has just become an echo chamber of people hysterically responding to things that aren't representative.

Floisme · 03/01/2019 10:58

There is no need to @ me. I am on the thread.

You basically accused of us of not being nice. Do you go onto Kiwi Farms and tell them to be nice?

I'm afraid I cannot answer any of your points beyond hysteria-driven. If you can't even be bothered to make an argument without resorting to misogynistic language then I don't see why I should make the effort to read it.

LangCleg · 03/01/2019 11:05

Christ on a bike. Can't even have a satirical thread without the terminally po-faced ruining it.

ChewyLouie · 03/01/2019 11:07

If this thread really ‘horrifies’ you, then take a break from the internet because sooner or later you’ll come across a lovely lady called Jessica Yaniv who is currently being misunderstood by women when accessing female spaces to help young girls change tampons.
Twitter is doing a pretty good job of creating a ‘ hysteria driven echo chamber’ to support men, stay away from it you may be traumatised.

Spare your hand wringing and sorrow for the many, many women and girls whose safety is being put at risk. Support women to stop being made to feel inferior for menstruating, pregnancy and breastfeeding. Stop us being mocked by men who like rooting around in sanitary bins for used sanitary products. Or is that kind of mocking, belittling and erasure the right kind?

ChewyLouie · 03/01/2019 11:16

October
No, you’re not supporting transmen if you deny the logic in this thread. You are however, supporting the erasure of women.
Equal rights means a third space for trans folk and their needs. The trans echo chamber is rather silent about third spaces why don’t you pop over there and chivvy them along.

octoberfarm · 03/01/2019 11:18

...I "@ed" you so you knew it was you I was talking to. It wasn't meant to be an offensive move. I'm not using the phrase "hysterical" because you're a woman, I would have said the same if you were a man saying the same thing., but looking back it wasn't the best choice of word, and I'm sorry that it offended you. What I meant to convey was that the threads on this topic often seem to be people working themselves up about either things that are unlikely to happen, haven't happened, or have happened as an absolute rare occurrence.

To the other PP - I was raised to believe that jokes are only funny if everyone's laughing. Satire or not, this thread was just a bunch of people being really unpleasant. Acting like this just makes it less likely that you'll be able to have sensible discussions with people with other perspectives.

Just as I've criticized the above, I'd obviously and unreservedly criticize anyone legitimately trying to/succeeding in hurting anyone, including women and children. Of course I don't condone anyone being hurt. But giving trans people rights does not equate to being okay with predators attacking people, and no-one seems to be responding to my basic argument that the people you're talking about attacking you for menstruating, or using the laws to make women unsafe, are the absolute vast minority.

userschmoozer · 03/01/2019 11:23

How do we keep the tiny unsafe minority out of women only spaces?

Floisme · 03/01/2019 11:27

There is no need to apologise and you didn't offend me. But your wording made me question your motivation for posting. When someone uses 'hysterical' as a default when there are so many other words in the English language, then I always think it's very, very revealing.

octoberfarm · 03/01/2019 11:30

In the same way you keep them out of any space as far as you can - effective law enforcement. But there aren't police at every bathroom entrance now, and so if a man wants to enter that bathroom, he's going to, regardless of whether there's a policy allowing people to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity. Again, there hasn't been any evidence of an increase in the use of trans-inclusive policies increasing people being attacked, or people pretending to be trans people to get access to bathrooms.

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