Nimco Ali: None of the black women Corbyn has promoted have got there via merit

[Cwenthryth]

This came up in my notifications this morning. She is fearless! I thought I’d share here as it would be an good conversation to have with the intelligent women of FWR.

twitter.com/nimkoali/status/1078994397432332288?s=12

In the light of people finally smelling the coffee & seeing that the left is full of racist and sexist melts I am just going to say it: None of the black women Corbyn has promoted have got there via merit. They have all been used as tokens and are not qualified for the roles.

This is intentional as people like Corbyn cannot deal with successful minorities especially if they are women. But they also don’t want their deep held racism to show so they cherry pick people who will take the roles given to them, say what they are told and who are dispensable.

Poor Kate Osamor is finding this out after years in the Party and on the left. I say poor Kate because it’s sad to see how blind she and many are, but she is not a victim and needs to give the whole they let me down a break. She knew what she was doing. She knew and benefited.

My initial reaction was shock and admiration for someone saying this ‘out loud’, but my gut response is agreement. Although it is a very sweeping statement.

I'm not convinced that many of the others, regardless of sex or colour, are there by merit either. JC had so many resignations, he's had to resort to the z-list to fill the posts.

Ouch. I love Nimco but am not sure she's on the ball here. As TimeLady says, there are plenty of Labour MPs who won't serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet, so his options are limited.

Perhaps more importantly, I think the front bench of both major parties are full of useless incompetents who should be nowhere near a ministerial brief. I think we have a bigger problem and that's the personnel making up the entire political class, of all ideological stripes.

Dawn Butler Shadow Women & Equalities Minister was keynote speaker at Jane Fae's TRA conference September 2018, 'We're Still Here'.

Report here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

Op TheHarpySings wrote:
(extract)
"3) Keynote Speech: Dawn Butler MP: Shadow Women & Equalities

This speech was fucking cringe. She said she was an ally of LGBT but had got a lot of messages moaning at her for “betraying women”. “Despite the fact I AM a woman.”

She mentioned all the countries that have self ID (RoI, Argentina, Malta, Norway). Apparently she’d been to Malta recently and it was “really chill.”

She blames the Tories for allowing this debate to drag on. “It is cruel.”

The impact of self ID are “non existent”. She said if this had been done swiftly there would be none of the current fuss or transphobia.

She said

1. the LGBT community needs to mobilise
2. They need to contribute to the consultation
3. They need to change the tone of the debate (lolercaust)

She also went on to say that a “phobia” is an irrational fear and there are three treatments:

1. Hypnosis
2. Talking therapy
3. Immersion therapy

Apparently the only way forward to deal with transphobia is talking therapy. DB said that the conservation needs to be around counties that already have self ID and it’s “fine”

Hilariously, given that the audience contained fucking Dr Harrop, she said something like “keyboard warriors don’t know the consequences of their actions.”

DB: “Labour will champion the unheard.”

She said that this was another form of Section 28 on the trans community.

She then quoted at length from a song from “The Greatest Showman”. I wish I was making that up.

Also, she got cornered by Mermaids reps on the way out and is meeting with them and their kids soon." (continues)

Independent article:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dawn-butler-transgender-uk-labour-intersectionality-rights-a8534761.html

relevent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3211692-Womans-Place-meeting-with-Dawn-Butler-Doxxed-by-Pink-News

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3399452-Dawn-Butler-on-the-GRA

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3390213-Dawn-Butler-Shadow-MP-for-WOMEN-has-doubled-down-on-her-hatred

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3373154-email-sent-to-lp-member-from-dawn-butler-equality-will-never-be-an-afterthought

Jane Fae
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398095-Random-thought-prompted-by-Jane-Fae-Why-doesnt-Gillick-competency-apply-to-hormone-blockers-or-sexual-consent

Mermaids Charity (recent threads)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3457686-Janice-Turner-article-in-the-Times-about-Mermaids

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452489-Mermaids-given-500-000-by-National-Lottery-Sunday-Times

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

Dawn Butler is dreadful. She sits beside Corbyn during PMQ muttering away and nodding in agreement. I don't like the word handmaiden but in her case she really is Corbyn's handmaiden.

Kate Osamor and Fiona Onasanya are disgraceful liars.

Corbyns problem was that many experienced people wouldn't serve under him and more importantly he didn't want those people. The snap election caught Labour unawares they scrabbled around looking for people to fill seats and didn't do due process on some of them. This applies to men as well as women. I agree with the fact that many on the left are misogynist but I think the issue here was corbyns mis management.

I agree with one statement, that DB was not promoted to her role in the SC on merit but rather because she was black woman, but that's it. So she was promoted because Corbyn is racist? Ridiculous.

Unfortunately Corbyn is an identity politics true believer, as are most MPs, as is DB, so that's all it takes in this climate to get ahead in politics. Until the new wave at least.

Very good points TimeLady & LangCleg, the wider context of the parliamentary party is important here isn’t it. The Momentum entryism into the Labour party has so much to answer for.

It feels like the whole political system is broken. Due to FPTP we’re reliant on two main parties, both of which seem pretty broken to this outside observer.

It feels like the whole political system is broken.

Recruitment into it certainly is! I mean, race and sex aside, we live in a country where a useless nincompoop such as Chris Grayling can fuck up every single ministerial brief he's ever been given and still get another one.

I look over the Tory and the Labour front benches and don't think I see even half a dozen people I think could competently manage a brief - and that's before I even consider whether or not I like their politics.

I've been following the Kate Osamor saga and she is an absolute embarrassment, in addition to acting like a stroppy 13 year old on social media. Lots of Corbyn's allies/ appointments are the same though regardless of sex/ race. Angela Raynor is another one. I assumed it was because he has slim pickings because most of the parliamentary party don't support him. So most of the shadow cabinet are out of their depth, including him.

If those tweets about specific women being dumb black tokens had been written by Tommy Robinson we'd be outraged. All black women in the shadow Cabinet? Really? There are tons of white racists loving those tweets.

I don't see the black women in Labour as noticably better or worse than the male MPs. Labour is not overflowing with quality MPs right now (!), but singling out the black women and demeaning them as mere tokens of colour?

I've heard that 'only got there because they're black/women' schtick all my life. Just because the insult comes in different packaging this time, doesn't make it profound. I've heard it about Sajid Javid in the Tories, about Labour women, about anyone 'uppity' (ie black or female) who does well in public life. Got there only because they're black. Shagged their way to the top.

While I don't rate Dawn Butler etc, at least she got elected, unlike Nimco Ali at the last election who crashed and burned.

For the record, I also think Corbyn is the chief z-lister in the Labour Party, along with his long-time pal, the shadow home secretary. Different skin colours, different sex, both an equal a waste of space, so no discrimination there.

Heaven help us all if they end up running the country......Venezuela should be a lesson to us all.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-36319877

1) Hypnosis
2) Talking therapy
3) Immersion therapy

Apparently the only way forward to deal with transphobia is talking therapy.

Surely hypnosis would fit the ethos of the trans rights movement better. See attached image for inspiration, Dawn, I think you let the side down a bit there.

Some are useful idiots and some are just idiots, and I’m talking about senior labour in general, not just the black women.

Labour have lost my vote, but then I never voted for JC as leader anyway.

Nimco Ali made the mistake of hitching her wagon to the pointless and useless WEP. She applied to be a Conservative candidate for mayor of London but wasn't shortlisted. I assume she will get a Conservative seat at some point in the future.

Corbyn is a z-lister of no talent.

I work in an organisation dominated by white middle class males. The idea that every single one of them got there on merit is quite frankly ludicrous. But does anyone say that? No, because all white men anywhere must have got there on merit, and to question that is the “politics of envy”.

I’m no Corbyn fan, but this tweet is just sexist racist crap.

As another tweet said (paraphrase) we’ll be able to judge better when there are as many incompetent women/black/Asian people as there are currently incompetent white men.

I’m no Corbyn fan, but this tweet is just sexist racist crap.

Exactly. Telling black women they are only in jobs because they are black women - and are too thick to realise it.

The idea that Ali is pushing is that she's a 'good' black woman who has achieved on merit - while the other black women got jobs through tokenism. Similar to politicians like Margaret Thatcher who said that she got there on merit (true) and then refused ever to appoint a woman to a ministerial position. Because clearly other women have no merit.

And it' a stupid party political argument anyway - Labour are racist because they are diverse, as if they were meritorious they would be more white as blacks are only given jobs as window dressing.

Is Ali’s criticism not of Corbyn rather than the women (other than of their complicity with the ethos for their own ends)?

Is there a link with the apparent determination to lever people like Lily Maddigan into CLP roles, presumable to prepare them for a safe parliamentary seat. Coupled with the speed at which LMs complaints appear to be acted upon.

The LP seems to have a number of “puppets”, of whom some (black, TG etc) may be more visible. Who selects them, and who pulls their strings?

Unless care is taken in selecting candidates, identity politics does underrepresented groups no favours at all.

I'm with TimeLady on this. When Corbyn was elected leader, sooo many MPs with shadow cabinet experience stepped back, and he struggled to fill the slots. And then those who had filled them resigned. And then those who refilled them resigned. He ran through the MPs like water! There can't have been many left.

I do agree with Nimco Ali inasmuch as "None of the black women Corbyn has promoted have got there via merit." I'm less convinced that they are being "used as tokens" since I believe the pool he had available to select from was not much bigger than the number of slots he had to fill!

Perhaps Nimco was looking purely at the black women in the shadow cabinet? Had she looked at the WHOLE of the shadow cabinet she might have said "None of the MPs Corbyn has promoted have got there via merit, but because they were the only ones left to promote."

For the record, I also think Corbyn is the chief z-lister in the Labour Party

JC is totally and utterly out of his depth. No leadership experience, no leadership expertise or qualities.

Diane Abbott has dropped clangers and said some hugely eye rolling things.

But compare her to Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, Andrea Leadsom, Chris Grayling, Dominic Raab, Esther McVey or Penny Mordaunt and does she really look any worse?

It's not restricted to Corbyn's shadow cabinet. It's across the political spectrum and regardless of sex and ethnic background. We are seeing a spectacular lack of talent at the highest level of politics.

And to be fair to Abbott, I've got more respect for her because she's not had a free ride through Eton than some of those you could name. Shes got genuine guts and isn't a cowardly buffoon who plays on his image of ineptitude as a badge of honour.

It's not restricted to Corbyn's shadow cabinet. It's across the political spectrum and regardless of sex and ethnic background. We are seeing a spectacular lack of talent at the highest level of politics.

My view also.

And to be fair to Abbott, I've got more respect for her because she's not had a free ride through Eton than some of those you could name.

Completely agree. Do you think JRM got where he is today on merit? I don't think Corbyn has the necessary qualities to pick good people, but there are loads of incompetent white male MPs who achieved their position purely because they had the right profile (right school, right connections) and quite a few have gone to prison.

What is more interesting with regard as to how Corbyn is trying to run the Labour party is how Fiona Onasanya and Jared O'Mara were fast tracked as candidates outside the normal vetting process and were pushed by the left of the party as their candidates.

Both are now no longer members of the Labour Party.

I do therefore think there is something to do with identity politics going on within the whole dynamic - cos thats what popularism does to attract followers as its incredibly simplistic and seductive.

BUT

The whole thing owes more to the polarising of politics and the rise of popularism on both the left and right which is leading to capable and sensible individuals being put off going into politics and never getting the opportunity to even stand as a candidate for the Labour Party because of Constituency level politics and factionalism within the Labour party.

And as I say, this isn't unique to the Labour Party either.

The decision not to vet either O'Mara nor Onasanya really has come back to bite the Labour on the arse. The question just remains as to whether the party will take any notice - especially given its been acknowledged that the entire disciplinary process in the party has collasped - because of party infighting and factionalism. Common sense has departed the heart of the party that makes it operate in a way which values free and open debate and respect for other people whilst doing that. Grossly offensive behaviour and lack of transparency have allowed internal corruption and abuses of power to stand whilst those who have whistleblown or stood up to it have been vilified or treated in an appalling fashion.

Characterising it as being an issue about black women being promoted above their ability misses the point that there was a desparate push by the left of the party to gain control from the centre and they were pushing any candidate that matched their own values and was part of their faction without thought as to whether they were capable, competent or creditable as MPs.

Corbyn's entire Cabinet reflects that, and how experienced MPs were pushed out after being vilified as 'centrists' and 'disloyal' to Corbyn for pointing out when he was spouting monumental bollocks. The momumental bollocks might have popular appeal to a lot of the public, but good MPs should be able to tell the public unpopular things and explain why they need to be done, rather than just offering sweets to children until they are sick which is what popularism does.

Nimco Ali, really doesn't have much of a clue about politics - she just picked up on a couple of crap black female MPs.

You can't tell the story of how Corbyn is running the current Labour party without understanding the wider politics and how it affects all levels of the Labour Party.

Its all rotten. Rotten to the core.

I think Nimco Ali's statement is too sweeping and shouldn't have been put like that but there's something in it.

Diane Abbott whether you like her or hate her has experience. Brains, yes she's said some daft things but no more so than other prominent politician.

But JC has promoted various people out of necessity due to those with experience not standing Andy unfortunately Dawn, Kate and Fiona are all problematic.

Fiona looked like a decent mp who had been promoted far too quickly and speed of promotion led to the conclusion JC had run out of alternatives until the speeding case came up. She's wrecked her own career through dishonesty (and over zealous religious pronouncements) and yes it's unfair she has the weight of responsibility to do well for other black women but in the same way any of us failing publicly are deemed to let down the group of women we belong to she has let down black women aspiring to be politicians