Misgendered and violent

[yiskasha]

I know it's from the Daily Mail, but I can't find anyone else reporting on it. I've never seen a woman tell a man to "take it outside" or aggressively kick a display down because they've accidentally been called "sir"... (hope the link works).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6536045/Furious-transgender-woman-rages-store-clerk-calls-sir-instead-maam.html

Every group of people has idiots. Their behaviour cannot and should not be used to as representative of the entire group and as justification to denounce that group.
Correct.

Which is why there are multiple threads on mumsnet concerned about a group of people who were biologically male at birth jumping onto the trans wagon in order to invade women's spaces, take over the definition of women, shut women up. It's why there are concerns about people born biologically male, claiming to be women and then gaining access to spaces where they can display aggression towards women.

As many threads state quite clearly, most people have absolutely no issue with trans people but they do have a massive issue with self ID and the way that aggressive male behaviour is used to intimidate others. This video demonstrates that such people exist.

(Note to MNHQ / watching Eyes) I said males because the discrepancy between this person's biological sex and identified gender is very relevant here).

Please stop trying to control what people on MN FWR (Feminism & Women's Rights) discuss

I agreed with Mumsnet! Hardly control.

the principal purpose of this video in the eyes of many is to show the scary reality of what transgenderism means in practice & ordinary life

That behaviour is unacceptable no matter what that person is. We know nothing about that person....are they even trans, do they have mental health issues, were they under the influence of drugs or alcohol ?

are they even trans

They're not, they're a woman because they said they are. That's what self ID is all about.

Daily Mail article on this incident has 53K shares.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6536045/Furious-transgender-woman-rages-store-clerk-calls-sir-instead-maam.html

Nearly 10K comments on the Titania McGrath thread about this incident.

twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1078692301344518146

Titania has followed it up with:

"If you have a girlfriend but she doesn’t have a penis, then you’re probably transphobic".

twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1079494241204822016

Well I’m Greta Garbo then. Just because.

Linking the fact they are trans to being a complete dick doesnt help anyone.

We're not linking the fact, that person is. The entire point of their rant was that they are trans.

That behaviour is unacceptable no matter what that person is. We know nothing about that person....are they even trans, do they have mental health issues, were they under the influence of drugs or alcohol ?

Who cares?? The point is that person has been given a tool to intimidate and menace the people in that shop. The proof is that they were intimidated and menaced.

People are already writing about it saying that this person was abused, and subjected to hate speech and therefore it was justified. A stance that is repeated from one end of the Internet to the other.

Until male bodied people publicly yelling their heads off that they have been misgendered is viewed with contempt and suspicion by everyone, we will continue to highlight this behaviour.

HQ have informed anyone who has asked that this specific subject is now acceptable for discussion because it is in mainstream media.

I agreed with Mumsnet!

Given that MNHQ haven't deleted this thread, it would appear not.

Posts and threads which break talk guidelines are deleted (so if one does and then there's a TAAT they'll both go). Have you reported the threads you've spammed with the same post citing whichever rule you think they break?

"Beautiful and gracious woman" ?!?

Really? Someone threatens other, kicks things and has a temper tantrum and that's gracious?

NATALT is no more an argument for the dismantling of sex-based services and spaces than NAMALT is. This is an MRA talking point.

We all know NATALT and NAMALT. The purpose of sex-based services and spaces is to keep out all the males who are LT.

This video is the perfect illustration of that.

It is a parody account, Rebel.

Anyone who claims that anything that causes sterility is a pinnacle of evolution is dumb as a box of rocks.

Oooh, maybe transgenderism is the planet's way of dealing with over-population? That thought had never occurred to me but you may be onto something.

On the video, I agree that one horrible, violent, ranting transwoman doesn't mean all of them are like that. But transgenderism does make possible this particular form of violence, and I'm genuinely appalled by the posts on some twitter feeds attempting to excuse it.

It is a parody account, Rebel.

To be fair, a lot of people seem to be taken in - today 'Titania' has posted a copy of her twitter notification that someone reported her statistical analysis of future terrorism - it was a graph of terrorist acts in 2019, clearly labelled as such. I think the difficulty is that some of the 'serious' accounts are so absurd, like the one about trans people being more evolved than mere mortals, that it's becoming difficult to distinguish the satirical from the (terrifyingly) earnest.

Popchyk sorry my bad. Not familiar with the account and seen way too many mental gymnastics and absurd posts from TRAs. Don't know if to be cross at myself for not seeing it or sad that it seemed so plausible that it's true.

Sometimes it’s reallt hard to tell!

Just as an aside, I love Titania McGrath and I'm very pleased to see she's out of Twitter jail.
(Apologies for assuming pronouns.)

Every group of people has idiots. Their behaviour cannot and should not be used to as representative of the entire group and as justification to denounce that group.

So far the behaviour of just the ones providing the face of the TRA movement, talking on tv and radio, giving advice to government committees and training national bodies/advising on policy is providing a strong reason to scrutinise every word the lobby is saying.

The point is that person has been given a tool to intimidate and menace the people in that shop. The proof is that they were intimidated and menaced.

People are already writing about it saying that this person was abused, and subjected to hate speech and therefore it was justified. A stance that is repeated from one end of the Internet to the other.

Until male bodied people publicly yelling their heads off that they have been misgendered is viewed with contempt and suspicion by everyone, we will continue to highlight this behaviour.

Well said. Thanks.

No one in any democratic society has the right to demand that other people perceive them as they perceive themselves. Nor does anyone have the right to dictate what words others can use to refer to them. These are extraordinary, special rights claimed/insisted upon only by transgender people for transgender people alone.

The inane idea that "misgendering is an act of literal violence" that should be prohibited & penalized as if it were the very worst sin in the world has got to go. Ditto the notion that trans women endure more pain, oppression & suffering than inmates in medieval leper colonies, blacks under slavery, starving children in Yemen today & every other unfortunate soul who has walked the earth ever. FFS get over yourselves.

Also: if this middle-aged guy were really a woman, he'd wouldn't be bellowing about being misgendered, he'd be bitching about no one paying him any attention at all. Because after a certain age, biological women are routinely treated as if we're invisible.

That behaviour is unacceptable no matter what that person is. We know nothing about that person....are they even trans, do they have mental health issues, were they under the influence of drugs or alcohol ?

Agree with pp, they are a woman because they say they are a woman. Self-id in a nutshell.

If this person had actually thumped anyone in their aggressive angry rant, it would have been recorded by Canadian authorities as violence committed by a woman.... . Self-id makes a mockery of crime stats.

Threads like this should be removed as MNHQ have been doing.

are they even trans

They are under Stonewall's umbrella and Ruth Hunt's mantra of "acceptance without exception".

That behaviour is unacceptable no matter what that person is. We know nothing about that person....are they even trans, do they have mental health issues, were they under the influence of drugs or alcohol ?

We know that this person is male.
We know humans can't change sex.
We know that we need to be able to identify and name male-pattern abuse, coercive control and violence.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

are they even trans

I missed that gem.

Obvious male born person, making feminine clothing and personal style choices, screaming and bellowing expressing displeasure at having been misgendered and announcing that they are obviously a woman.

What on earth else might they be if not trans? Genuinely bewildered here. How are people supposed to tell so they don't end up victim to some large individual going berserk at them?

Threads like this should be removed as MNHQ have been doing.

Thank you MNHQ for leaving this thread.

This person has shown how frightening they are when riled. This person is large, aggressive, intimidating and was not born female.

This person claims womanhood, hence access to safe female spaces where girls, women, elderly women, battered women are naked and vulnerable. And we're not supposed to discuss this? Wow.

Both of my daughters were 'mis gendered' when they were little, as they were bald and not wearing pink! I, as a woman, have been called a lot worse than 'sir'. I haven't needed to resort to violence to deal with those situations.