Misgendered and violent

[yiskasha]

I know it's from the Daily Mail, but I can't find anyone else reporting on it. I've never seen a woman tell a man to "take it outside" or aggressively kick a display down because they've accidentally been called "sir"... (hope the link works).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6536045/Furious-transgender-woman-rages-store-clerk-calls-sir-instead-maam.html

I am morning i am

EJennings
What I don't get is this is the same America where the first amendment gives right to free speech, allowing westbro Baptist church to protest at funerals, you're allowed to say racist things etc because it's free speech so freedom to speak and freedom to challenge, but then one group seems to think free speech doesn't apply to anyone saying something they don't like.

Shamelessly stealing from the lipstickalley thread on the incident : Must be PMS (PreviousManSyndrome)
😂

Can I just add this from Kat Blaque too, because some of it's kind of hilarious?

twitter.com/kat_blaque/status/1079454815934005248?s=19

"Yeah, this sounds pretty transphobic. Incredibly so actually. Why do you get to define your homosexuality,but trans people don't? I'll never understand why gay men, after years of being framed as pedophiles, rapists and deviants, somehow feel like they can do the same to transppl

And can I also point out that sexuality is an area where I feel trans people have evolved beyond the understanding of the average person? Trans people often embody things that people cannot quantify or narrowly define. I know who's attracted to me and who isn't.

But cis people will insist that only an incredibly narrow segment of men could ever possibly find me attractive. That doesn't reflect in my reality, but the fact that they insist on their ignorance being truth really reinforces that we just have a higher level of understanding.

Because in most cases, if someone lives something, you trust their narration.But people handle trans people as though they don't know how their lives are or how they are viewed. It's incredibly condescending and we wouldn't accept it in most cases. Transphobia makes it acceptable"

The Ego Has Landed.

And can I also point out that sexuality is an area where I feel trans people have evolved beyond the understanding of the average person?

This belief that people who are transgender being evolutionary superior is interesting.

Della Aleksander voices it in the 1970's documentary Sunkisses shared.

OP comment:
"I did a search of Mumsnet and couldn't see any other posts about this extraordinary 1973 discussion show which was produced by transsexuals 45 years ago where they were given free-reign, free from editorial control. Four transsexuals are joined by a psychologist and an MP.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06c83f4/player

Where to start? Maybe with the show's producer and host, Della Aleksander, who is the most bizarre of all the participants. Della starts by claiming that a "chastened and wiser" Adolf Hitler and Queen Victoria have said, through a medium, that "there was a special role for me, in the reconstruction following a world wide collapse in 1978-79". Della also claims to have been sent from another world where the sexes don't exist and that transsexuals are the only model of a "higher race"! Della also claims to have founded the neo-Nazi sounding European National Movement in South Africa whilst serving in the Army there (I couldn't find any info on them, but they sound well dodgy to me).

Della also seems utterly confused, mis-using the terms 'bisexual' and 'intersex', and appearing to think these words mean transsexual, and that the appearance of nipples on a man means 'we are all transsexuals'. Della is, thankfully, corrected by the psychologist at 33.53 mins in who states that it is important to use the correct terminology, but Della wafts such trivialities away by saying "I don't want to get bogged down in medical questions". The MP, Leo Abse, argues against the 'trans umbrella' (before this term was invented by Stonewall etc) at 36 mins in.

There is clear evidence of autogynephilia (AGP - the sexual fetish of a man loving himself as a woman) at 33.23 when Della says the "sex act" is a "transsexual one", as "one attempts to become and absorb the beloved". (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3327193-BBC-Open-Door-programme-45-years-ago-on-transsexuals-a-real-jaw-dropper

I don't believe most cis people contain the depth to have empathy towards transgender people. Most of them will never understand the strength it takes to be us.

I truly feel like trans people have evolved to a level of understanding that is unattainable to most cis people.

I was convinced this would turn out to be a parody of some sort. I didn't believe a really person could post anything this tone deaf.

Apparently I'm wrong. It's yet another 'writer' who is using a real name, has 10s of thousands of followers and seems to genuinely think that being trans makes them 'deeper' 'stronger' and more 'empathetic' than mere 'cis' people. There are loads of similar minded folk on their feed doing contortions to justify the abusive dick in the video and demonise the poor check-out lad.

EJennings and MaisyPops

Excellent points. The threat of gun violence is definitely a consideration in any public altercations here in the US.

Whilev we do have a Constitutional right to freedom of speech and the government cannot punish offensive language or beliefs, (unlike Canada, where one can be prosecuted for "hate speech"), there is no protection against the social consequences for one's words. We very much live under the oppression of political correctness; people lose jobs, businesses, and reputations for speaking socially unpopular beliefs, and nothing is more sacrosanct than trans-identity. The fervor and backlash for any criticism can be incredibly harsh, especially in academics and professional fields.

That wasn't transphobia it wasn't any kind of phobia, a phobia is irrational fear
That was very rational fear of a large muscular human behaving in a very angry manner

I’ve seen debate online about whether Elon Musk can use the first (?) amendment to wriggle out of his “pedo” slander of the British caver in Thailand.

His lawyer claims he can.

truly feel like trans people have evolved to a level of understanding that is unattainable to most cis people. The fact that we're still having this conversation blows my mind. The convo has shifted, but is still so much the same. I can only conclude that it's beyond them

says the man displaying a large pair of fake breasts.

But how are you mean5 to know that guy is a lady ?

That was no lady!!

EJennings, I am even more NAL but the discussions I saw all seemed to pretty much centre on the First Amendment, from both UK & US Ls and NALs. Some said it did apply & some said it didn’t but the whole freedom of speech thing seemed to be key.

I’ll see if I can find the link - was the Guardian on FB I think

Not a particular intellectual contribution but this made me smile.

Found it! 449 comments so far (haven’t read them all )

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157457948491323&id=10513336322&fs=0&focus_composer=0

I find some of the comments on this thread quite disturbing.

Fine the person is apparently a transwoman - that doesnt mean they cant also be a complete and utter arsehole.

Linking the fact they are trans to being a complete dick doesnt help anyone. It stirs up resentment towards transgender and transsexual people. I get it ... noone likes the current mess that is the law over TG but we target that at changing the system not at individual's.

Threads like this should be removed as MNHQ have been doing. The sole purpose of a video like this is to provide ammunition.

Every group of people has idiots. Their behaviour cannot and should not be used to as representative of the entire group and as justification to denounce that group.

Threads like this should be removed as MNHQ have been doing. The sole purpose of a video like this is to provide ammunition.

No, this event has been covered by MSM.
Please stop trying to control what people on MN FWR (Feminism & Women's Rights) discuss.

A male person's rage at being 'misgendered' towards a female customer and shop worker is relevent to discussions about women's rights, safeguarding, free speech and political process.

Linking the fact they are trans to being a complete dick doesnt help anyone

The chap was complete dick. A violent, abusive dick. In a shop that had women and children in it.

The sole purpose of a video like this is to provide ammunition

No, the principal purpose of this video in the eyes of many is to show the scary reality of what transgenderism means in practice & ordinary life. This menacing brute is the frightening type of person girls & women are supposed to surrender our civil rights to/for. You think we should budge up & bow down to explosive, abusive large-bodied males with identity issues. We say NO! NO! NO!

Every group of people has idiots. Their behaviour cannot and should not be used to as representative of the entire group and as justification to denounce that group.

This video shows a large male being violent, abusive and threatening. Nobody would say that all males are dangerous but we have sex-segregated spaces to try to stop women in vulnerable situations being faced with people like this.