Another voice.....

[ginyogarepeat]

Robert Webb has added his voice:
twitter.com/arobertwebb/status/1076515788247482373?s=21

They managed to square away the hiring of Johnny Depp though.

This is all so unpleasant isn't it? I really count my blessings that I don't have a child going through this because... what the hell do you do? I would absolutely tow the 'gender is a construct' line but what if my child was threatening suicide? The cosy blanket of support that Mermaids seems to provide of 'talking', 'supporting', 'exploring' the options would totally feel like a lifeline if you were wavering in your resolve to not just affirm.

I don't for one minute paint Mermaids as 'individuals' as being hormone or surgery happy but where do you go when you have followed that path so singlemindedly with your own child. There's no backtracking with it. I totally believe that Mermaids started out with good intentions but where else could it go other than to suggest that following the pharmaceutical and/or surgical route would 'solve' the problem. I don't want to pile on to parents of children going through this but I feel it totally necessary to flag up that Mermaids is providing dangerous advice, painting a far too rosy picture of what life-long medication and surgery can achieve. Look at Alex Bertie and Jammydodger and Jake ft Magic on You Tube. All have gone through radical surgery and the dysphoria is still there. It's heartbreaking to watch. The realisation that when the beard comes, it's not enough, when the breasts get removed, it's not enough, when the bottom surgery is done, it still might not be enough. And all the risks to health along the way. And all the mental health issues might still be there too or only temporarily alleviated.

I wonder why SG's daughter doesn't contribute to the debate more? I watched the documentary of her trying to become Miss England in 2012. So much of it was about this idealised pageant-queen version of femininity. You would think she would be a poster girl for Mermaids as her experience is cited so often. Reading the articles that surrounded her publicity campaign in 2012 she talked about being transgender as a 'birth defect'. Such harsh language that I think would not be allowed now.

It's good that this is getting talked about.

Look at Alex Bertie and Jammydodger and Jake ft Magic on You Tube. All have gone through radical surgery and the dysphoria is still there. It's heartbreaking to watch.

Are there any statistics about suicide attempts etc after transitioning? There’s been so much thrown about today of the famous 45% statistic but I’d like to know if the suicide attempts have been divided into pre and post ‘transition’ (whatever that would be for the individual, of course...). I’m sure I’ve read that dysphoria persists after transition and it would be interesting to know if the ‘let the children have hormone blockers so they don’t kill themselves’ argument could be countered with some statistics about whether blockers/reassignment surgery actually made things better.

I’m worried the data will just become totally nonsensical soon with everyone identifying as whatever they want so you can even interpret it though ...

Yet again the responses are verging on hysterical wailing, combined with copious exaggeration and putting words in mouths.

It's just boring now - this tactic of loudly shrieking a whole pile of bullshit and wild claims and some of it will stick.

Actual facts, actual intelligent debate, actual anything is absent.

PronounIsWitch
Re JK I suspect it is a contract thing. It won’t be about jeopardising books sales but about not doing anything to diminish the brand re the Warner films. She may we’ll have been warned that getting involved publically here could potentially do enough damage so that she could be sued for breach of contract

No doubt you are right and yet Warner ness

Whoops. Pressed wrong button.

As I was saying

Warner needs JK more than the other way around.

It's interesting that RW is now getting levels of abuse normally reserved for women. Comments threatening to spit in his face, lots of name calling and claims he's harming children.

I think the reason for this is similar to why women (particularly feminists and lesbians) get this response- that it's assumed they should be 'on their side' and the TRAs see criticism as a betrayal.

The one noticeable difference in the huge volume of abuse he's received is an absence of threats of violence. I'm sure I can't think of any reason why that would be.

want to add my appreciation for Robert Webb.
Thank you for giving a damn and bravely speaking out.

Interestingly, for all the hysteria and guilt tripping and accusations in the replies - I couldn’t stand to read it after a couple of minutes - Robert Webb’s tweet hasn’t been “ratio’d”

727 replies, but 3.3K likes. TRAs might be loud but they are not a majority, even on Twitter.

And a lot of his replies were positive - the negative ones seem to be at the top this morning and I am blocked from lots so I can’t see anything about spitting in his face - but yesterday there were lots more positive comments very prominently visible.

In case he hears about this thread - thank you Robert Webb. Here are some girly flowers

there's safety in numbers. The more famous people, doctors, academics, celebrities etc. talk about their gender critical opinions, views on Mermaids and male bodied people infiltrating women's
sport (among other things) the less able TRA's will be to abuse and doxx. If there's a giant wave of contrary views coming their way, they'll be less able to attack. Graham was a seemingly easy target for them as a lone celeb voice (one who really tied his colours to the mast, rather than just liking or retweeting stuff, or posting ambiguous GC views. He's not minced his words at all, which is why he's getting it in the neck so much)

I don’t know about anyone else, but over the last 48 hours I’ve seen a lot more GC stuff on my twitter timeline.

Not sure whether between the RMcK debacle, the Mermaid/Lotto stuff, Janice’s article and now RW it’s been brought to more people’s attention or if I’m just noticing my timeline has become more of an echo chamber?

Girly flowers? Soz for misgendering you Robert, obviously I meant manly flowers.

It because people are continuing to talk about it, they can't silence everyone, more and more people are seeing what is happening, more and more people are talking.

@Floidme you mean GI Joe flowers, not Barbie flowers?!!!!!

Yes - thank you papayas Clearly I need the Mermaids training!

It's been interesting to see in the last couple of days responses in support of JT, AG, Martina N and now RW from lots of names I've not seen before in the trans debate. If you click on the profile lots of ordinary blokes mainly tweeting about football etc, I think it just shows that when these issues reach a wider audience people just aren't buying it.

Much credit has to be given to Fair Play for Women, A Woman’s Place UK And Mumsnet for sticking their heads above the parapet. Without all these voices standing together, individuals wouldn’t be joining the debate.

It’s a shame Mermaids has taken the path it has. I’ve no doubt there is a need for an organisation to support, inform and share experiences. Mermaids is doing more harm than good.

Also in addition to how many likes RW has he seems to have gained at least 400 new followers since last night!

Simon Fanshaw, co-founder of Stonewall - has also come out in favour of Janice's article.

The tide is turning.

twitter.com/simonfanshawe/status/1076651271128604672?s=21

Another man who gets it. Very good article which might prompt more men to stop being bystanders.

twitter.com/excelpope/status/1076479111001006080?s=21

Quiet on Mumsnet though, while they go frothing at Robert Webb.

The responses from TRAs are just ridiculous. Anybody who even mildly doesn't follow the party line is accused of wanting kids to die. The absolute manipulative emotional blackmail is there in black and white, everybody can see it. When your response to requests for better oversight and safeguarding of organisations working with vulnerable children is a suicide threat it's safe to say you have no argument. Thankfully more people are waking up to this ridiculous silencing tactic- I've even seen some vocal trans allies start questioning these stupid comments now with a 'hang on, I don't agree with X but they clearly didn't say that'.

Thanks Robert if you're reading, appreciate you doing this. He's getting the expected abuse but a lot of likes for his tweets and replies so lots of people are quietly agreeing with him.