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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Recording of Mermaids training

334 replies

Imherefornow · 18/12/2018 15:40

twitter.com/MichaelConroy68/status/1074723989308801026?s=19

Apologies if this has already been posted. Did a quick search and didn't find anything.

Michael Conroy attended and recorded a mermaids training session. It's hair raising listening.

I believe that someone is working on transcribing this, which will hopefully make it easier to analyse. But wanted to post it to make sure it hadn't been missed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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HerFemaleness · 18/12/2018 21:28

Oh good grief. Clown fish.

HandsOffMyRights · 18/12/2018 21:36

Some transcript on the 'mermaid review' thread. Didn't know about this thread!

courderoy · 18/12/2018 21:37

How can say that people don’t fit stereotypes and then say that people can / should define themselves in the context of and by reference to stereotypes? I don’t understand it. It is like clutching steam.

R0wantrees · 18/12/2018 21:40

Thank goodness it wasn't just me who couldn't get past the first 40 seconds

Whilst the beginning section is deeply frustrating (described as 'cobblers'). Serious issues arise in the middle and end.

Is worth skipping forward to this.

swerv · 18/12/2018 21:43

Before she moved onto clown fish - why the heck did she bring up two spirit communities?

Did she say there was scientific data to show that being trans was not a choice? Wonder where that data is?

Animal kingdom characteristics why???

Tom boy - and no male equivalent of the word - goodness, goodness me.

Dockray · 18/12/2018 21:46

To remove any bits that could include identifying info that jeopardises safeguarding you can use a free software called audacity to edit the recording. You just import the recording to audacity and it will show the recording as a sound wave. You can then play it and delete the relevant bits and then export it as a new wav file. Dead straight forward. Thought that might be useful info...

Candidpeel · 18/12/2018 21:46

Damn I missed this. Is the recording gone?

R0wantrees · 18/12/2018 21:47

why the heck did she bring up two spirit communities?

Its used as 'proof' that trans people have always existed and that there are more than two binary genders/sexes (?)

jeaux90 · 18/12/2018 21:47

I listened to all of it.
The worst lie was at the end when she talked about when they have a child that complains about the trans kid using sex segregated spaces like bathrooms/sleeping arrangements etc for residentials.

She said it is the law that the child that complains has to use alternative arrangements

I couldn't believe it. Honestly though I'm glad this is out there. But I'm fuming.

Melamin · 18/12/2018 21:47

Damn I missed this. Is the recording gone?

No, its back again.

DandelionsAreNotLions · 18/12/2018 21:48

If your time is limited part 2 is the one to listen to.

Its only 40 minutes long for normal people, I have been listening to first 10-15 minutes and rewinding , open-mouthed to double check whether I heard correctly.

I forgive all my previous managers for complaining about dodgy, low-level amateur training days. This one is really something in its own class. Do listen to it

Melamin · 18/12/2018 21:50

It is probably better to save the beginning until the end...………...

swerv · 18/12/2018 21:53

I am so so so shocked that the gender spectrum crap was presented to primary school children - that is what the trainer said she did - what a way to groom boys and girls that girls are inconsequential barbie is just objectification of women - as they won't all have critical thinking skills.

swerv · 18/12/2018 21:57

Fuck I can't stand the leading question - this is why organisations need to vet their training partners.

She doesn't understand brains and how they work.

I hate the pseudo science, bull shit stereotypical crap.

OhHolyJesus · 18/12/2018 22:04

Also following awaiting transcript. Thanks for sharing in advance.

(Posie just posted saying SG has called the police on her.)

Melamin · 18/12/2018 22:06

Oh dear. It's not Posie's fault Hmm

howlsmovingcastle84 · 18/12/2018 22:08

On what grounds have the police been called??

swerv · 18/12/2018 22:13

Sorry why the Police?

ButteryParsnips · 18/12/2018 22:13

Great, more urgent callouts for the police on these issues.

R0wantrees · 18/12/2018 22:16

(Posie just posted saying SG has called the police on her.)

thread by Mrkhtake2
(extract)
"The reason Susie Green can't take legal action is because nothing said about Mermaids, by gender critical people, is untrue. They do support surgery for younger people (link in the next tweet). Susie also argues that making children infertile has no impact on their mental health.(continues)
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1075052199921807360.html

DrEm
"As others talk about the charity #Mermaids and its alleged troubling disregard for safeguarding policies (fracturing lines of communications with parents, keeping secrets etc.) I want to express what I view as troubling connections. @ BigLotteryFund #charitytuesday
The relationships that don’t sit well with me are the ones between Mermaids and MESMAC and Mermaids, MESMAC and the police.

To summarise, Mermaids and MESMAC are two charities which support each other and work together. MESMAC, a sexual health charity, permitted volunteers & workers to have sexual relationships with service users.

One former trustee of MESMAC, Bowen, was convicted of child sexual abuse. One former employee of MESMAC harassed the academic Jessica Eaton over her campaign to stop showing explicit films of child sexual exploitation in schools.

The supposed office décor at MESMAC – alleged penis coat hangers – maybe should have raised concerns rather than just eyebrows? Here it is described in the IPSO ruling.

Despite this disconcerting record Mermaids is proud to work in partnership with MESMAC and release joint statements with the charity.

I am of the opinion that both Mermaids and MESMAC have strong relationships with the police. Mermaids hosted Christmas parties at various forces, trained the officers etc.

It is important, I think, to note that part of Jimmy Savile’s tactics to prevent exposure was to host parties with the police.

Both Mermaids and MESMAC have reported journalists to the IPSO. Some breaches have been upheld but the vast majority of the claims have not. MESMAC vs The Sunday Times: ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-re…
Mermaids vs The Sunday Times: ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-re…
The Mermaids IPSO case was over the Sunday Times Reporting that a Judge had ordered the charity to keep away from a child. It wasn't an order but rather a request.

It is frightening to criticise Mermaids, if one does Mermaids might, instead of producing their safe-guarding policies and assuaging fears, send the police to question you. I worry that this is a silencing tactic and not a productive response to child-safeguarding concerns.
Mumsnet thread on Posie Parker: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3190731-Woman-questioned-under-caution-and-banned-from-leaving-the-country-for-criticising-Mermaids

I always feel uneasy when a group or institution creates a climate of fear and silence, particularly when it comes to child safeguarding.
I can’t help but think that if I’m frightened to criticise a group/institution/individual imagine what a child would feel like if they had a secret to tell.
I think the dates are significant, the MESMAC sex scandal and trustee being jailed for child sex offences, the harassment of an academic over her campaign against child sexual exploitation films - those happened before Mermaids joint statement.

One would think Mermaids were aware. If not could it be argued that as a children's charity they did not carry out due diligence?
I must stress I am not aware of any CSA allegations against Mermaids, it is their relationship with MESMAC, particularly post the various MESMAC scandals, the cultured climate of fear & silence, and their disregard for safeguarding principles which is troubling me."

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1075033888110624770.html

both threads have sourced links and documents included

HerFemaleness · 18/12/2018 22:19

22 minutes in to part 2, she gets very cross at MC for asking questions. Grin

Qcng · 18/12/2018 22:21

Melamin
Damn I missed this. Is the recording gone?

No, its back again.

No, it isn't back again it has definitely gone.

HandsOffMyRights · 18/12/2018 22:24

I've put a few snippets on the other thread, some of the parts where Jan the trainer is challenged by that pesky GC male...

pombear · 18/12/2018 22:25

Just an aside, but I'm trying to imagine any other training session which starts by attempting to justify the logic by drawing from other species' behaviour.

So kids, you remember when we explained transgender to you using the clownfish example.

So now we're going to cover sex education. Let's start by looking at lion mating behaviour:...

The mating behaviour of lions is a painful process for the female. The penis is barbed and its withdrawal hurts the female who may twist around and attack the dismounting male. The pain is necessary for feline mating as it is the shock to her system that induces ovulation and permits fertilization.

Yay. Hmm

And for anyone thinking 'one thing isn't like the other', why would the clownfish example be any more relevant to the human species?

Melamin · 18/12/2018 22:38

soundcloud.com/user-407799333

Try this.

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