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Woman questioned under caution and banned from leaving the country for criticising Mermaids

(655 Posts)
HereComesTheSun1 Sun 11-Mar-18 00:18:11

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tough-millwall-cave-in-to-transgender-bullies-nltnkpv3d

Relevant section:

Meanwhile, a woman who criticised a transgender charity on Twitter has been questioned under caution by police and told she will be arrested if she tries to leave the country. Kellie-Jay Keen- Minshull accused the group Mermaids of “suppressing free speech”.

She had accused Mermaids, which calls for children to be allowed irreversible sex-change treatment the NHS currently prohibits, of “prey[ing]” on gay teenagers and of “mass child abuse”. Mermaids declined to comment.

MarSeeAh Sun 11-Mar-18 00:30:48

She is, or certainly was, a MNer.

I googled her name and found this from 2010.

www.bettybandit.co.uk/2010/12/equality-begins-at-home/

How can a woman be denied freedom of movement as a result of exercising her freedom of speech?

MarSeeAh Sun 11-Mar-18 00:31:45

She's the second woman quoted in the article I've linked to.

thebewilderness Sun 11-Mar-18 00:47:02

Mermaids are the ones who trained the police aren't they?

redshoeblueshoe Sun 11-Mar-18 00:47:20

I am speechless
Again

FFS

CircleSquareCircleSquare Sun 11-Mar-18 00:48:54

Wtf?
This is happening so fast. This can’t be real.
But of course it is.

NotTerfNorCis Sun 11-Mar-18 00:55:24

Okay so this week we have a woman banned from leaving the country for criticizing Mermaids, and another woman attacked by a mob of up to 30 TRAs for attending a WPUK meeting. Interesting.

ALittleBitOfButter Sun 11-Mar-18 00:59:18

Share token?

MarSeeAh Sun 11-Mar-18 01:08:31

Tough Millwall cave in to transgender ‘bullies’

The famously hard-edged football club has cancelled a feminists’ meeting as claims spread of intimidation by transgender lobbyists

Andrew Gilligan
March 11 2018, 12:01am,
The Sunday Times

Millwall football club buckled under a barrage of phone calls, emails and tweets.

They are renowned as English football’s toughest club, their shirts proclaim they “fear no foe” and their fans chant: “No one likes us, we don’t care.” But even Millwall have given way in a drive by transgender activists to “bully and silence” their critics.

Feminists who hired the club’s conference suite for a meeting last week about “how concerns raised by women are being shut down through threats, harassment and accusations of transphobia” say Millwall cancelled the booking after pressure from transgender lobbyists.

The event was to protest against potential legal changes allowing people born male to “self-identify” as women. Feminists say the move threatens women’s spaces and rights.

Venice Allan, the meeting’s organiser, said: “I got a call from the club saying they’d never seen anything like it — constant phone calls, emails, tweets. They were really spooked. It wasn’t exactly ‘No one likes us, we don’t care’.”

A Millwall spokesman said the event “was cancelled mutually with the organisers. We were pulled into a drama that we didn’t really feel we should be part of.”

The cancellation came as it emerged Therapy Today, the official journal of the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (BACP), has been bombarded with protests by trans activists after publishing a letter saying some young people were identifying as trans through “youth culture” and “social contagion” and being encouraged to “medically alter their bodies” even though they might later change their minds.

More than 500 people signed a statement attacking the letter as “transphobic” and saying that “affirmation of a child’s . . . gender identity is non-negotiable”. The statement added: “This is not a free speech issue. Therapy Today is not a tabloid newspaper or TV talk show.”

Within days the editor, Catherine Jackson, published an apology for the “serious error of judgment on my part”.

The letter’s author, Stephanie Davies-Arai, of Transgender Trend, an organisation questioning the diagnosis and treatment of children as transgender, said: “Things are in a bad way when even a letter in what is supposed to be a forum for debate can be suppressed,” she said. “Attempts to bully and silence are revealing only of the fact that this new dogma cannot withstand scrutiny.”

BACP said it had apologised “because the letter was not compatible with our responsibilities as a signatory of the memorandum of understanding on conversion therapy”, a document that treats anything other than affirming a child’s transgender identification as akin to controversial “gay cure” therapies.

Meanwhile, a woman who criticised a transgender charity on Twitter has been questioned under caution by police and told she will be arrested if she tries to leave the country. Kellie-Jay Keen- Minshull accused the group Mermaids of “suppressing free speech”.

She had accused Mermaids, which calls for children to be allowed irreversible sex-change treatment the NHS currently prohibits, of “prey[ing]” on gay teenagers and of “mass child abuse”. Mermaids declined to comment.

@mragilligan

NotTerfNorCis Sun 11-Mar-18 01:13:12

Woo be careful about having opinions on Twitter.

TinyRick Sun 11-Mar-18 03:33:09

Nee naw

Fairyflaps Sun 11-Mar-18 06:47:29

I don’t know about mass child abuse, but taking your son overseas for cross-sex hormone treatment at the age of 14 or so, then taking him to Thailand to have him castrated on his 16th birthday is child abuse.

This is what the now CEO of Mermaids did to her own child. And shamefully none of the authorities who were involved with this family did anything to protect him. The child had been bullied horribly which had led to suicide attempts, so the family must have been on the radar of the various local authorities, police certainly, education, social services, health and mental health services. A serious safeguarding fail for all concerned - including the charity.

Somehow this woman has become paid CEO of this charity. Does the charity advocate for other parents to do as she did? - it would be more difficult for them to follow suit on the genital reassignment surgery now - thank goodness - as nowhere in the world allows this on under 18 year olds. Partly because of outrage about the surgery on this child, Thailand brought their rules into line with the rest of the world and WPATH guidelines.

Actually, wasn’t Mermaids until recently recommending the services of Dr Webberley who was prescribing cross- sex hormones to children as young as 12, sometimes after only a phone interview. Dr Webberley is now under investigation by the GMC. In which case, yes, Mermaids are complicit in mass child abuse, though I don’t know the numbers of children and parents who have been encouraged down this route.

NHS guidelines are that children should only be given cross sex hormones from the age of 16 . Even then it should only be with extreme caution as the effects of cross-sex hormones, especially testosterone, are not fully reversible and can lead to sterility. This is not a decision many children at the age of 16 are in a position to make. For a 12 year old, that decision would have been made for them by the adults around them.

EmpressOfJurisfiction Sun 11-Mar-18 06:56:47

Open access link. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tough-millwall-cave-in-to-transgender-bullies-nltnkpv3d?shareToken=293e6c99da13a3bca0d8190d8568ded0

LittleLebowski Sun 11-Mar-18 07:14:33

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EmpressOfJurisfiction Sun 11-Mar-18 07:21:32

<waves to LittleLebowski>

We met at the Woman's Place event, didn't we? Linking RL names to online IDs seems risky especially in the current climate so I've asked HQ to delete or edit your post - sorry but it just seems safer!

LittleLebowski Sun 11-Mar-18 07:25:24

Hi Empress yes we did.
I just googled the name published in the Times and it gave me that Twitter account. It can't be the one used to criticise Mermaids though as there's nothing on it.

Fishfingersandwichnocheese Sun 11-Mar-18 07:26:38

So would mine. That said I am pleased the times has published this.

The BBC published an article to its Facebook this morning about trans women in beauty contests - the number of commenters - many of them men that seemed to realised this and other examples such as sport is just an example of men pushing out women was quite impressive.

WiseUpJanetWeiss Sun 11-Mar-18 07:29:50

What would she be arrested for? Is stating an opinion a hate crime? Presumably Mermaids could claim they have been libelled, but that’s a civil matter isn’t it?

Fishfingersandwichnocheese Sun 11-Mar-18 07:29:51

Although admittedly still misogynistic.

EmpressOfJurisfiction Sun 11-Mar-18 07:50:54

I just googled the name published in the Times and it gave me that Twitter account. It can't be the one used to criticise Mermaids though as there's nothing on it.

Oh ok - maybe just an old one then.

Datun Sun 11-Mar-18 07:54:32

If the head of Mermaids went against NHS guidelines, surely breaching those guidelines would be considered abuse?

The fact that she is now being paid to advise other parents is astonishing.

She has no medical background.

She was recommending Dr Webberley, who subsequently fell under investigation.

And they were told to keep away from that child in the custody case. The child had never been diagnosed as trans, so why were they involved with him in the first place?

A charity getting people arrested for questioning their methods is not a good look.

They should be absolutely transparent. Look at Oxfam.

And as for Millwall:

Venice Allan, the meeting’s organiser, said: “I got a call from the club saying they’d never seen anything like it — constant phone calls, emails, tweets.

And this about meeting that was examining the reasons why women are silenced!!!

In a way, I can't help being comforted by the sheer desperation of people like Mermaids/TRAs to shut people up.

Not only does it get peoples backs up and create suspicion, it, to me, demonstrates the lack of argument or justification for their position.

This will be talked about. It's already starting.

If I was frantically scrabbling around to stop it being talked of, I would seriously have to ask myself why.

QueenLaBeefah Sun 11-Mar-18 07:55:21

Bloody hell. So we now don't have freedom of speech in this country?

HairyBallTheorem Sun 11-Mar-18 08:09:40

This is extraordinary.

Quite aside from the specific trans issue, there's such a broad issue about freedom of speech vs. authoritarian police state tactics that I can't believe the press as a whole aren't all over this.

So far we have:
A woman's freedom of movement taken away for voicing an opinion;
A woman subjected to violence on a picket line for attending a WPUK meeting;
A woman allegedly punched in the face at Speaker's Corner while gathering to attend a meeting

(I've put the "allegedly" in there because the court proceedings are ongoing and I don't want to give various parties any chance to say anything has been done to prejudice them, before anyone jumps all over me).

Why can't people see that regardless of your views on self ID legislation, this is scary. And it's mostly coming from Bromentum (I say that as a moderate lefty who tore up her Labour membership card a couple of weeks back over this). These people would happily emulate 1970s East Germany or Czechoslovakia).

Patodp Sun 11-Mar-18 08:09:53

These people (TRAs) are on a fucking power trip.
They're crazed. Drunk on their own power.

Someone needs to learn how to say "fuck off" and fast.

(Respect - MNHQ. And TGT. And the few others that can pronounce "fuck off").

AskBasil Sun 11-Mar-18 08:15:24

We should also remember that a judge advised that Mermaids should not be allowed near a little boy whose mother was emotionally abusing him by claiming he was a girl. Remember that? Because of their ideology of instant validation for a child's belief that he is a cat dog unicorn member of the opposite sex because of liking toys adults have decided are only for the opposite sex, instead of calmly advising the mother to let the kid play with what he liked and be who he was, they were encouraging her to tell him he was a girl. In the end IIRC the mother lost custody of the kid and Mermaids were told to do one. All very sad and worrying.

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