Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

[PimmsnLemonade]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/times-letters-reasons-for-private-schools-oxbridge-success-sqjb6kkgt

So what do the outraged-on-their-behalf-"cis allies" say to that?

Debbie H's Twitter thread about the letter is interesting both for the additional links and some of the side conversations:

twitter.com/DebbieHayton/status/1071204195095797762

I should think their actual words fall on deaf ears as they don't oppress women.

I think Debbie Hayton is a honest person trying to stand up for what they believe in, and I appreciate them publicly stating they want to find common ground with women, in what is a very hostile environment to say so.

But honestly, the OTT gushing of thanks on that twitter thread is like a masterclass in female subservience.

Piss off Alexis.

Reported

Stop shit stirring, Sue. You're rubbish at it.

Well done, here we have the truly stunning and brave! You have my support.

Great letter. Why can't the woke supporters see that TRAs will cause harm to transsexuals too?

Actually, I'm probably being naive. If it puts women in their place they don't care.

That's an excellent letter, thanks to all who wrote and signed it.

Excellent very thorough letter from brave people!

Thank you to everyone involved in the letter

But honestly, the OTT gushing of thanks on that twitter thread is like a masterclass in female subservience.

My thoughts exactly, the same could be said of this thread too

I respect anyone prepared to stand up and speak for their views against the threats and behaviour currently being dished out. The transsexual community have suffered damage already and will suffer more if the TRA GA agenda is railroaded through and I'm glad to see them speak out for their own particular needs. Their voices also support some aspects of women's issues with self ID, in particular male violence, and make it clear this isn't just some random group wittering. Some of those voices are also well known ones with weight behind them.

So

I don't think it's subservience. Maybe a bit of going out of one's way to demonstrate lack of transphobia by showing the zero animosity and hate one has towards these transsexuals who are showing respect to women. Mainly a lot of relief at hearing sense spoken by a voice that can't be condemned as transphobic without making the condemner look very silly indeed.

Saying 'thanks' for writing a good letter which is supportive of women isn't 'subservience'.

There doesn't seem to be a TRA pile on, is that saved for adult human females?

Subservience, eh? Men gush about the accomplishments of their allies all the time, elevating one another to high heavens in the process. But God forbid a woman does as much as say thank you, eh? What is this, a rerun of the Middle Ages, where anything but proud silence besmirches our honour?

I don't think it's subservience either.

I think the middle ground that the letter offers to work towards is small, positively tiny in fact, and my endorsement really doesn't go much further than "thanks for not being arseholes". The letter was really well crafted, and while I won't be going to bat for transsexual rights, as it's not my fight to to fight, I won't stand in the way either.

Feminism is still for women, and only women and it doesn't need to change anything. But male violence and toxic masculinity is a problem for us all, so if there are other people who want to challenge it, then I'm all for that. We have that common goal and I'm open to finding the common ground to challenge genderism if the opportunity naturally presents itself.

Everard-Digby; no TRA pile-on, yet , because they don't read the Times, perhaps? Give them time.... things slip through eventually.

In fact, older trans people, or older post -op transsexual people with GICs, or p/t transvestites, often do not have much contact at all with other groups, so may well be unaware of the TRA outrages.

I

no TRA pile-on, yet , because they don't read the Times, perhaps?

I would have try thought someone's monitoring Debbie's Twitter though

Thanks for the good wishes. The inspiration and first draft was all Miranda. I did the completer-finisher work that I am best at: pruning, editing and polishing, and various bits of admin.

Had surprisingly little push-back from it, which is encouraging. Maybe the political landscape is changing?