Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

[PimmsnLemonade]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/times-letters-reasons-for-private-schools-oxbridge-success-sqjb6kkgt

April 2018 thread with links including the condemnation of intimidation of women attending WPUK Oxford meeting by the founder of Trans-Oxford ( a transsexual):
extract
"l‘m not condemning the meeting of Womans Place UK but the shameful campaign of bullying and intimidation organised by the students and transactivists outside of the QuakerHouse.
I’ve studied in Oxford, once a capital of freethought and freespeech, known for its fair debates with respect to the opinions of one’s opponents and refreshingly skilful and witty arguments challenging their views.

Bullying, although surfacing occasionally, was never welcome, especially, in the LGBT circles having too many victims of it knowing only too well how much it hurts. But last night the tables have turned - and the bullied became the bullies

I founded TransOxford in 2015 to promote the greater unity and more extensive communications between the separate transgender groups some of which had no idea of the others existing in the same city.

It eventually became a connecting hub between the trans groups in London Brighton, Reading, Swindon, Bristol, Bath.

I was promoting unity and understanding between these groups and the society around them, acceptance and equality and, most importantly, social integration of trans people with the rest of the world."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3233705-Really-like-this-video-from-a-trans-woman-with-very-good-insight

see also Michael Biggs
Associate Professor in Sociology and Fellow of St Cross College article:
'Free speech at Oxford:
Do women have the right to meet to discuss legislation?'
(extract)
"A meeting was held on 25 April 2018 to discuss proposed changes to the law on gender recognition. The proposed legislation will eliminate sex-segregated spaces and activities, from women’s refuges to competitive sports. In a democracy, people have the right to meet to discuss—and indeed oppose—legislative changes. This should be incontrovertible. I am appalled that a small number of students at Oxford used extreme measures to stop this meeting from being held. (continues)

(concludes)
I have entered this debate not because I am a feminist but because freedom of speech is one of the highest values of a democratic society, and the basic foundation of university life.
Transgender activism poses a grave threat to freedom of speech. I think of the young MPhil student who had to disguise herself to attend this meeting because she feared the reaction of fellow students. This is the generation that we have educated."

users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/FreeSpeechOxford.pdf

The Shami Chakrabarti comment, very emotive to use the words migrant and refugee for men wanting to switch genders and in the process, obliterate the word woman. They are in no way poverty stricken, sanctuary seeking , migrants or refugees. They are often well established, privileged men using their privilege to strip women of their rights.

I do wonder if women supporting trans mtf are those who a) are fortunate enough to have never been abused by a male and b) think that once men are recognised as women then gender based inequalities will disappear. The unfortunate truth as we are beginning to see is that mtf will become the preferred female class and women will continue to be oppressed, this time within their own ‘sex’ class. Who benefits? Not women.

LeanneMills1961
I am concerned by your post.

Many here commended and supported your decision to speak out.
Its worth re-reading.

Just as the letter in The Times is recognised as important and appreciated.

Please do reach out to people you know or the anonymous support that is available (eg Samaritans)

I’m guessing Shami will never personally need a domestic violence refuge, nor is she likely to end up in prison.

Hi Leanne, just read your comment and I agree with R0wantrees, take care of yourself 💐

Yes, Leanne - please do seek out some professional mental health/bereavement support.

I absolutely welcome your resolve to challenge the activists that are currently doing transsexual people a disservice, but not if it is at such dire cost to your own well-being.
Losing one’s mother is life-changing for lots of us. It’s 14 years since mine died and I still miss her everyday. Be kind to yourself.

Yes , I expect she won’t Betty.I had a lot of respect for Shami, such a shame to read her views re the transgender cult.

Leanne - what Betty and R0 said. Reach out for qualified help. My mother also died a couple of years ago and it is a catastrophic blow, I know.

Indeed yes.

The person who helps does not have to be a specialist, just the right person, with the right skills. I know of an excellent " person centred" therapist based in Surrey, handy for the A 3, if that is an area you can get to.

Leanne

And a (slightly rhetorical) question: is there no end to the ways in which Shami will sell assorted groups of people up the river?

Leanne,

I have only glanced at this thread, but actually saw the disagreements as positives. It is useful to have a moderated space within a generally polite culture to explore differences and to discover common ground. I think the past year has been tough for a lot of people, but expressing frustrations and differences has to be better than not talking.

There is an element of truth in the Tolstoy quote: Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

And I suspect the same may apply to people who have made a difficult transsexual/gender journey.

You sound lovely. Debbie Hayton, when I met her, was interesting and easy to talk to. I would like to meet Miranda. KayM2 has quite a pugalisitc posting style, and I worry for yoounger people like Aimee Challenor and Paris Lees who have clearly had very difficult adolescents.

But that is me considering people as people. We are all much more than our sexuality or gender, and will primarily be judged on how we treat others.

My mother was always very very critical of me. Nothing I could do was right. Looking after her now she has Alzheimers has brought a freedom. She is still rude, but without the capacity to target or to hurt. I can judge myself for doing a good job, when I had more than enough justification to walk away. I don't need to factor in her views or snide comments. It took a long time to get there, but the confidence I have in knowing I am good enough, when for so long I was told I wasn't, is huge.

Your mother died suddenly, so little chance to unpick the baggage. Think of heading off to the long supportive thread on the elderly parents board (no need to mention sex or gender - equal welcome is given to men and women) or perhaps the bereavement boards (which I don't know) for wise sharing of experience and advice. I think you may be around the same age as me. There are real advantages about being invisible. No more children demanding your time, a chance to reconnect with friends who did not have families, no more hormonal cycles. Other than having to check for hairs on your chin before you go out, there is real freedom. Gardening, bridge, pottery classes, walking groups, volunteering: whatever is your thing.

And no, most people wont judge you on your sex/gender. Really not. And the ones that might: they are equally likely to judge you on your accent; skin colour or the type of car you drive.

Grief takes a long time. Looking back I suspect you will see speaking out as part of the process in asserting your own self. Plus I think as we get towards retirement age we all look back and consider the paths not taken, and ambitions not achieved. Get help where you can to be ready for a next constructive stage in your life. And absolutely don't waste it on regrets.

Sorry about the thread divert.

ll be candid. Since I lost my dear Mum I no longer care about life. If I died tomorrow it would not bother me in the slightest

I understand how much losing a mum means

But your life is probably much more important than you think, we touch peoples lives in very many ways which can be quite unknown at the time

I'm sorry to hear about your mum Leanne.

Besides. Leanne, nobody wants to shout at you.

We want to talk about threats against women.

I’m guessing Shami will never personally need a domestic violence refuge, nor is she likely to end up in prison.

This is Shami Chakrabarti speaking about housing of male predatory and violent offenders (discussion based on Karen White's sexual assault of female prisonsers).
Domestic violence refuges are also discussed.

Shami Chakrabarti draws anaology with why racist people should not be placed in a cell with someone who may be the target of their racism. She states that the isseue is recognising the specific risks of the individual and keeping them from people who may their target for abuse.

Whilst this may seem logical on the surface it demonstrates no understanding or awareness of the full extent of male-pattern abuse & control.
If the Ministry of Justice with access to pre-sentance reports, resources and time were not able to recognise the risk presented by Karen White (who had convictions), then how might a refuge?
It fails to recognise the low reporting levels and poor rates of successful convictions as well as the specific known vulnerabilities of female prisoners ( ahigh number of whom have experienced male-pattern abuse, coercise control & violence.

Her focus is informed by human rights law, rather than Safeguarding frameworks which aim to identify and manage risk.

Her focus is informed by human rights law, rather than Safeguarding frameworks which aim to identify and manage risk.

Exactly this.

apolgies as I deleted the end of the sentence.

This is Shami Chakrabarti speaking about housing of male predatory and violent offenders who are transwomen in the female prison estate (discussion based on Karen White etc)

Karen Ingala Smith discussing the realities of women's services and refuges which includes the nature of the 'risk assessment'which is done.

It is very different to what trans rights activists and advocates appear to believe or suggest.

'A Woman's Place is speaking the Truth' (Leeds, 28th September 2018)

Her focus is informed by human rights law, rather than Safeguarding frameworks which aim to identify and manage risk.

I hope Shami and the people who rely on her expertise understand this.

I hope Shami and the people who rely on her expertise understand this.

Unfortunately, those who are making or influencing policies seem not to.

Anyone who tallks of 'individual risk assessments' or 'case by case' decisions being sufficient when housing vulnerable females with males (regardless of gender identity) is likely not starting from a working knowledge of safeguarding frameworks.

Materialist Its such an important point. thank you.

To clarify, 'that focus is based on their interpretation of human rights law'

That Chakrabarti quote is downright alarming, given her influence. The way she's framing this shows that the reasons both TS and TG people frame their arguments in "oh poor little me don't you see how hard it is for me" terms is that it works, at least on women who've been sufficiently socialized into putting the needs of male humans first at all costs. It's manipulation on a societal scale, and wouldn't work if society's attitude to women's unhappiness and pain hadn't always been "suck it up and stop complaining".

So, going back to Bowl's excellent comment - everyone has to right to self expression, but your right to swing your first stops where it hits my face, or where your male body is in a space where I'm taking off my clothes.

I agree with all you say AAK. Wording those sentences in that deliberate way without any context I find very troubling.

I'm so sorry if I caused anger and concern with my emotionally-charged post yesterday, I didn't mean to be that heavy. Guess it just all poured out, the feeling of isolation can be overwhelming sometimes.

Anyway today is a good day, people have kindly been in touch, the sun is out here, and a local robin has just begun visiting my garden again.

I have much to be grateful for with what has happened recently. If I can be of any help next year, I am more than happy to provide it.

Love to everyone x