Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

[PimmsnLemonade]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/times-letters-reasons-for-private-schools-oxbridge-success-sqjb6kkgt

There are those that appreciate what we are trying to do. There are those who will always see us as the enemy

And there are those that do not lump all transpeople into one group.

There are at least two trans posters on this thread that do not set the Male-pattern-abuse red flags waving.

Sorry, I don’t follow. In what way have I made this about myself. I signed the letter in my real name, which is not on Twitter.

I didn’t join to cause yet another argument. I don’t disagree with the sentiments expressed on this thread.

Perhaps Miranda would kindly confirm my intentions are well meant?

I apologise if I’ve come across badly, certainly not my intention. I’ve never claimed to speak for women, or how you should be campaigning etc.

Regardless of what people may think, I’m going to continue to provide legal support from the sidelines to those women being harassed or threatened by activists.

It’s all I can do

I believe I’m the only transsexual woman who is a qualified (!) lawyer who has expressed support for women objecting against TRA’s and MRA’s. For that I’ve been sent the most disgusting abuse and vitriol and been dragged into the criminal “justice” system

There are those that appreciate what we are trying to do

It was a great letter & an important statement.
I'm aware of what you've done and had to deal with as a consequence of standing up against MTRAs abusive behaviour.
Its not only appreciated but respected.

What this thread revealed was disappointing about some people who are transsexuals. They are individuals.

I recall your legal difficulties. I appreciate it's been a shit road for you. And, as I said, the letter was great!

And what R0 said.

I don't think the comment was about you - from where i'm sitting boudica

It's never been JUST about the toilets and if you dont "get" that then you're utterly missing the point, and frankly being self-centred.

Every time I try to talk about changing rooms someone tries to steer the discussion back to toilets. Almost as if they know that while they might be able to guilt trip some women into reluctantly compromising on the toilets issue the insistence on being in spaces where women and girls are naked is absolutely indefensible.

Agree with the others

I dont think they were referring to you boudica

angry

Just about everything is dragged back to the bogs!!

Thanks

If I can clarify, what I meant by private concerns was, in my case, seeing how this debate affects me in real life, on a day to day basis. Those worried and concerns won’t necessarily be understood or appreciated by someone who hasn’t been through a successful transition.

That in no way trumps (no pun intended) the valid concerns women have.

(Search RollOnFriday and the user name if you don't know what happened.)

Basically this transsexual v “trans” schism has been bubbling and building up for some time. It’s regrettable that women have been put at risk. Absolutely heartbreaking to be honest.

I have to agree with what everyone has said in the last few posts, and Boudica, the letter was fantastic. I'm sorry you've suffered so much abuse at the hands of the TRAs.

(As a small aside, and not related, R0wan could I possibly send you a little private message in relation to something we were talking about on another thread the other night?)

I personally was rather amused by Boudica's swipe at a certain individual who identifies as a lawyer...

What it certainly has done is brought transsexuals who share the same concerns, together and that’s no mean feat. Herding cats is easier!

Hamster00 of course.

I tend towards Lang's view that if someone was a selfish arsehole prior to transition they'll still be one afterwards, whereas if they were a decent human being that too will probably remain the case. Leopards, spots, etc.

and so we go on..... whatever people say, do or write, unless it fits with the agenda that other people want, will be seen as evasions, attempts to make everything about themselves, attempts to close down the debate/ silence some other person or persons. Although heavens to Murgatroyd, no-one is being silenced here, are they?

So, ( for example), if one tries to address issued about loos in response to many posts about loos, someone will then ask" don't you realises that this is about more than loos? ".... It's quite amusing, in it's way, this tactic.

Someone who is clearly rather bright said to me tonight, re this thread, when I said that though I could quite see why people find my didactic writing style gets on their nerves, I wondered why things I write are just plain hated, the answer came; It is because you are not apologetic about who you are."

And is there truth in this? Possibly. Probably. Yes, many of us " old hands" are no longer apologetic about being a TS woman. Or man. We dealt with all that 50 years ago. .
Trannsexual people do not have to " ask the permissions" of women to become as nearly as we can, female. F to m people do not have to ask the permission of men to start the process of becoming as much a male as they can achieve.

And if we do " ask permission"; who of? Every year on January 1st? Are we given a pass?

The letter was about how the TRAs should behave , not about whether they are allowed to be female/ trans/ young/ immature.

For my part, I have heard Prof Freedman speak, and read her words. I don't think that everything she says is 100% helpful, tbh, but so what. People stopping free speech and the expression of different opinions is something to be resisted to the hilt. People bullying, threatening assaults, damaging property is just not acceptable in our society.

Someone who is clearly rather bright said to me tonight, re this thread, when I said that though I could quite see why people find my didactic writing style gets on their nerves, I wondered why things I write are just plain hated, the answer came; It is because you are not apologetic about who you are."

At this point I'm just curious how many different ways Kay can find to say that Kay doesn't care what women think or what impact Kay's behavior has on us.

Ladies, know your place!

Which is curious as this was made very clear a few pages back & acknowledged.

I find the appropriation of 'granny' quite grating. For a woman to be a granny means going through 2 women's rites of passage - giving birth and menopause. For a male to refer to themselves as granny feels like I'm being flicked the bird as a woman - to me anyway.