Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

[PimmsnLemonade]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/times-letters-reasons-for-private-schools-oxbridge-success-sqjb6kkgt

it is because you are not apologetic about who you are

Nah

I reckon theyve got that one wrong

It's like the appropriate of "mother" squared, isn't it? A granny is the matriarch of the family. There is no such thing as a male matriarch, and no male person can possibly fill the role a gran plays in the lives of her granddaughters in particular.

Not that I'd expect the male person in question to have any clue what that role is or why they can't fill it.

How do you know they are bright?

Clearly bright...

Im doing that focusing on the wrong thing again aren't i

Better than focusing on the poor kids who NEVER get the pronouns wrong, because "granny" wouldn't like that at all.

and so we go on..... whatever people say, do or write, unless it fits with the agenda that other people want,

Was the person clearly bright because they were saying what you would like them to say?

and so we go on..... whatever people women say, do or write, unless it fits with the agenda that other people kay wants

That's how you know that women are stupid, when they don't agree with Kay.

(nods very seriously)

We're at parody status now, right?

I don't think even the Midnight Miso has managed quite this obvious a demonstration of male entitlement and, well, cloth ears.

Also: why are flounces never permanent?

I was going to say, isn't this the fourth or fifth failed flounce? They never can stick the dismount from the pommel horse of self righteousness.

Angry. You mentioning the granny thing jogged my memory about something.

I discovered knitting about 2 years ago as a stop smoking aid. I couldn't cope with the patches or cold-turkey, and a friend "convinced" how it was the panacea of all smoking cessation methods. So I gave it a try and became addicted, as it's great for my anxiety too.

Backstory over, I remember my DP, quite rightly, wiping the floor with me over an absolutely throwaway remark with no thought behind it (which was the problem ) where I said that x-friend was trying to "turn me into some kind of granny with all this knitting...."

I know - stereotypes, male socialisation, and I'm an idiot - but brain just engaged mouth with nothing in between. I'm ashamed to even bring it up but that was then and I'm cringing even admitting this....

She said EXACTLY the same as was said by other posters - BUT I learned an absolutely valuable lesson that day. Seeing someone else typing it NOW (and alluding to it / encouraging it), and in that context actually makes me angry and realise how offensive it was now I understand why.

Not entirely sure the other person will though...

hamster you might enjoy this!
knowledgenuts.com/2015/03/09/the-ultra-manly-history-of-knitting/

Not entirely sure the other person will though...

Potential early Xmas miracle? But yeah, I'm not holding out much hope.

One of my grannies was an avid knitter and used it as a sort of tangible show of love, since she was a bit stiff upper lip and reserved. Didn't like cooking much so she made people jumpers instead. I'm ashamed to say that I probably avoided her attempts to teach me how as a young person because it symbolized to me being trapped in a gender role I didn't want, and it wasn't until I was older that I could appreciate why she knitted for people so much. So I still don't know how to knit very well, but now I cook for people instead.

It's all a long way from "my grandkids would NEVER get the pronouns wrong", which does rather seem to reverse the way the grandparent/grandchild relationship usually goes.

Pointing out to people aspects of their own behavior that they'd rather not see isn't bullying. Self awareness can be a gift, if you're willing to accept it. Sadly some never will.

and so we go on again, with on thread references to people who are clearly not of the right sort to be here. :-)

Oh, and earlier, and not for the first time, it was said that I " did not care what women think". A bit harsh, that , as it is based on no evidence other than that I have disagreed with what some people on some MN Feminist threads think. Actually I care a lot what people think.

I must assume that the opinions of people on this thread are thought to stand proxy for the views of all women, then? Because as we all know, they don't. Perhaps they should but they don't. I cannot speak for all men, for all transsexual women, for all women. Only for me. No-one on this thread can plausibly set themselves up as representatives for " what women think" .

I have run through a number of my posts , before pressing go, with a number of real, honest to goodness women. My 40 year old daughter. My ex wife, who is a close friend. A friend who I was at college with 50 years ago,. My sister. THEY do not represent what " women think". But they don't think that the opinions here do either.

Social media can be like a world of it's own, sometimes. EG earlier someone quoted something written by James Barratt, senior consultant psychiatrist at Charing Cross Hospital 's Gender Clinic . What he wrote was a consultant psychiatristy sort of a thing. Not a " man" sort of a thing. On this thread, it was disapproved of , and described as misogyny ( from memory) .

Kay you’re clearly capable of giving as good as you get. If you weren’t constantly trying to assert your dominance on these threads, people wouldn’t have to bother challenging you. There are no free passes on MN I’m afraid. Heat, kitchen, etc.

One of my grannies passed away earlier this year so I'm finding this latest form of appropriation particularly distasteful.

Sorry to hear that Angry

EG earlier someone quoted something written by James Barratt, senior consultant psychiatrist at Charing Cross Hospital 's Gender Clinic . What he wrote was a consultant psychiatristy sort of a thing. Not a " man" sort of a thing. On this thread, it was disapproved of , and described as misogyny ( from memory)

That was me, the misogyny is demonstrated in the statement quoted. its context & the consequences.

It isn't a psychiatric evaluation its his opinion about women.
(there is psychiatric evaluation within the transcript. Reading those parts it is extraordinary that the male prisoner was granted their wishes)

Hence why I said, this is misogyny, not he is a misogynist.

It was a very important case and set the precedent which enabled Karen Jones to be in the position to sexually assault vulnerable female prisoners. The women were locked in by the state with Jones a male prolific predatory offender.

Dr James Barrett of the Gender Identity Clinic, Charing Cross Hospital, who had also known the Claimant for many years, explained why living in role in female accommodation was required:

"it will become clear that she is so widely accepted as female in that unit that location in the main prison will follow. I think that such acceptance will pretty generally apply in the main prison, also, although there will probably always be a small number of prisoners who will choose to make an issue of the matter because they are the sort of women who enjoy conflict. If this patient is able to cope with protracted close proximity women of that sort I would judge her able to cope with the less prolonged, more avoidable, travails of the civilian world."

www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2220.html

Sorry to make the thread take a bit of a maudlin turn there. Show your elderly relatives lots of love while you still can, everyone!

small number of prisoners who will choose to make an issue of the matter because they are the sort of women who enjoy conflict

Well thats an astoundingly shitty thing to say