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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel is on Woman's Hour tomorrow!

281 replies

PimmsnLemonade · 02/12/2018 22:58

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1069358508280287234

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crsacre · 03/12/2018 15:19

Linda Riley is a director of GLAAD.
www.glaad.org/about/board/lindariley

Salaries seem to be in ballpark of US$ 75,000-101,000.
www.paysa.com/salaries/glaad--director--new-york,-ny

Unfortunately the removal of gendertrender by WordPress means that we can't refer to Gallus Mag's investigate research on GLAAD.

drspouse · 03/12/2018 15:32

I do find it hard to believe this - that a born man suffers domestic violence at the hands of a woman ( a wife or girlfriend assuming it was a heterosexual relationship to begin with) simply because men are bigger and stronger than women so unless it's being done in manner of Pauline Fowler with a frying pan I simply don't believe in the violence aspect. Huge rows yes, physical domestic violence no.

As with gay men, IIRC transwomen who are attracted to men are at similar risk from a male partner as a woman with a male partner.

I think the stats are that Stonewall is exaggerating (NO! Who'd a thunk it?) but that the National Crime survey is under-estimating meaning that people in a relationship with a man are at roughly the same risk of DV no matter what their own sex or gender identity.
Of course the ultimate outcome of that DV may well depend on the relative physical size of the person-in-a-relationship-with-a-man.

And it still tells us more about the DV-er than the DV-ee (except of course out of all people in a relationship with a man, most are female).

drspouse · 03/12/2018 15:32

(So the only transwomen who are at risk of DV, really, are those who are attracted to males).

crsacre · 03/12/2018 15:34

GLAAD's latest annual report:
www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/GLAAD-Annual-Report-2017-2018.pdf

"lesbian" appears once.
"gay" appears 5 times.
"transgender" appears 26 times.

Melamin · 03/12/2018 15:45

She seems to be more heavily into 'diversity' rather than lesbian or bi.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 03/12/2018 15:56

Men certainly do experience domestic violence from their female partners - especially when you factor in emotional abuse, you don't necessarily have to be physically stronger to hurt somebody, especially if you use weapons.
Men who are victims of domestic violence might also believe that it is wrong to fight back and who don't want to physically hurt their partners.
They may also find it difficult to report, for fear of being shamed, or that they will be accused of being the aggressor. So we definitely shouldn't ignore it.

ChewyLouie · 03/12/2018 16:01

crsacre, I’m interested in the GLAAD angle too, their list of donors is pretty extensive and includes the Tawani foundation.

incallthebloodytime · 03/12/2018 16:03

Men do experience abuse but on far less of a scale than women.

It's not ignoring it to say that it happens to women more.

2 women a week

Most men who are killed by partners are killed in response to subjecting women over long periods who eventually fight back with tragic consequences.

It's not to say it never happens or we ignore it. All domestic violence is awful.

But the statistics don't show women kill men as much as men kill women

Melamin · 03/12/2018 16:04

No we shouldn't ignore it. I have been reading that 1 in 4 women experience domestic violence and 1 in 6 men. 30 men a year die as a result and 2 women a year (104?). It doesn't say who is the perpetrator is, and we do know that some of the male perpetrators also kill their children along with their wife/partner. The site I was reading did not say how many children are killed.

drspouse · 03/12/2018 16:41

Men also kill their ex's new partner, would that count as a DV murder?

Datun · 03/12/2018 16:50

30 men a year die as a result and 2 women a year (104?).. That's two women a week, not a year.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 03/12/2018 17:04

Oh yes I agree that male DV against women far far outweighs the other way round. And some of female on male violence may well be retaliation after years of abuse.
But still, it does exist and perhaps patriarchy is responsible for stopping those male victims from speaking up and getting the help & support they need, for exactly the reason a pp didn't believe it could happen. Assumptions that males are always stronger, and always happy to resort to physical violence when threatened.

nauticant · 03/12/2018 17:28

You're right, Ihaventgottimeforthis, it's best to stick with slightly messy facts rather than tidied ones that tell a black and white story. The slightly messy facts tell a clear enough story.

Imnobody4 · 03/12/2018 18:06

I thought the domestic violence stats also include any violence in family e.g. father, son, brothers. So father or brother beating up trans family member would also count.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 03/12/2018 18:16

'Tidying up' the facts also gives people loopholes to claim exaggeration or lies. Life is always messy.

BubonicBudgie · 03/12/2018 18:55

Are they covering sport tomorrow ? Does anyone know who the guests are ?

PerspicaciaTick · 03/12/2018 19:07

I am disappointed that a discussion that started so well, ended once again in a trans ally seeking to police the language being used by women to discuss their experiences.
Linda managed to suggest that not only was Julie using transphobic language, but that it was causing her harm just to have to listen to it. I honestly got the impression that she expected Jane to close Julie down for using some sort hate speech.

AutumnCrow · 03/12/2018 19:28

Yes, Linda went full Literal Violets at the end.

PipGoesPop · 03/12/2018 19:34

Just had a look at Linda's twitter feed. It's full of lesbians praising her for taking a stand against the transphobic bigots and telling her she did a brilliant job.

Can ANY of these women explain why a lesbian not wanting to have sex with a male bodied transwoman is transphobic? Can anyone here explain their logic, what is their argument exactly?

FlippinFumin · 03/12/2018 19:37

I was disappointed too with Julie. Fucking funding making liars of them all. How the hell can women hope to push it back. No one is interested in funding women’s groups unless they include men. No one is interested in funding kids groups unless they include trans kids or are breast binding or some other shit. I am actually seeing Gilead happening. First they got our women’s / lesbian groups. Then our language. Then our kids bodies. Then our lesbians bodies.

FlippinFumin · 03/12/2018 19:38

I mean disappointed with Linda. Confused

Katvonblackdeath · 03/12/2018 19:58

It's interesting that this has touched the rawest nerve. Twitter is a flurry. Women's hour is transphobic.

I guess underneath it all is a deep insecurity.

I'm curious. Amongst high profile gay trans allies, have any, like cashman or Jones, or this Linda lady, actually dated a transperson?

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 03/12/2018 20:03

Autumncrow - I love this! : 'Literal Violets' 🤣

TimeLady · 03/12/2018 20:10

Woman's Hour transphobic? Perhaps that's the sort of reaction we need to get the BBC females fired up and onside.

heresyandwitchcraft · 03/12/2018 20:14

DIVA - if your USP is supposed to be for lesbians, then STOP "including" a bunch of heterosexuals and MALES.
This is ridiculous.
If anyone wants that material, they can pick up ALMOST ANY OTHER MAGAZINE. If you need sex tips for penises, Cosmo has a bunch of them. Trust me, they'll apply to male-bodied people no matter what that person's gender identity is.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Agree that Linda is just denying her complicity in this disastrous state of affairs. Of COURSE she knows about the struggles lesbians are facing, especially young ones. I bet this has to do with money and political capital.