Julie Bindel is on Woman's Hour tomorrow!

[PimmsnLemonade]

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1069358508280287234

Want I really want to hear on woman's hour is Jane Garvey asking a transwoman why the reverse pressure - for gay men to accept transmen (eg the west London sauna) doesn't seem to apply (especially sexually)

I listened, and it was going OK - at least there was a live debate, and they were listening to each other, prodded extremely skilfully by Jane Garvey. THen the Editor of Diva started saying "I'm finding the transphobic language paiful" and withdrew from saying anything but that.

I was thinking, "WTF is transphobic about saying that lesbians do not want to engage with people with penises, especially sexually?!?"

I also really liked Julie Bindel's point about lesbianism being in part a political challenge to patriarchy - that a group/class/category of women who says that they do not wish "to engage with penis" is an intensely challenging thing to say in a patriarchy.

We don't call gay men transphobic because they don't want to engage with vulvas/vaginas. Because hey, not many men straight or gay really want to engage at all levels with women.

Because, hey - patriarchy. Which is all about penis.

This Twitter thread shows very clearly that Linda HAS indeed heard about the concerns of lesbians...

twitter.com/lindariley8/status/994712342704377861?s=21

Julie was brilliant but I am frustrated at how impenetrable the debate is to the uninitiated - most still think that transwomen are natal females which totally changes the dynamic and makes it seem peripheral.

I bang in about this stuff at home all the time but still my DP gets confused half the time about which way round it works

From Private Eye in October:

Last night Kourtney was shown having a meeting in her home, no documents were given to her, she believed what has was told. Kourtney tried to get out of giving a talk, she was only told about it in a meeting the day before. On the day walking to the venue she was finally told about the format when it was too late to back out.

www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/style/kourtney-kardashian-congress.html

From Private Eye in October, re Linda Riley:

Jeez Riley did know about lesbians being pressured into sex with dick owners from the twitter thread up above

Lying lying

It’s all about the money

I have to say I agree with a pp that it's frustrating to not hear proper coherent arguments from the non-GC side.

There is no argument that can justify same-sex attraction has disappeared and been replaced with same gender attraction, thereby obliterating sexual orientation on every level. But only resulting in a benefit to men.

Especially as sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under equality law.

Julie was brilliant but I am frustrated at how impenetrable the debate is to the uninitiated

And I agree with this. Talking about patriarchy and lesbianism being such a threat to it, is going to lose some people.

I wish she had just said so are you saying there is no such thing as homosexuality, or it's not based on same-sex attraction?

Crs
Your link about the Jack the Ripper museum includes a link that is described as Riley's" impressive CV"
Not much prior to 2017 in there.

I didn't hear it - hopefully I'll catch up later. But for the editor of a lesbian magasine to claim they haven't heard about lesbians being pressurised to have sex with transwomen is a fucking joke. I'm straight and I've heard about it, and not only on here. Let's just say that for a journalist, her lack of curiosity is startling.

Jeez Riley did know about lesbians being pressured into sex with dick owners from the twitter thread up above

Now, it wouldn't somehow be appropriate for Woman's Hour to issue that correction because it's not practical to prove whether or not something slipped someone's memory. After all, fact-checking organisations tend to correct matters of fact or when numbers/stats/events are uttered by politicians or other mainstream representatives.

However - there's no reason for that twitter thread not to be posted to both WH's and Riley's Twitter, I should think. (I'm not on Twitter.)

I am looking forwards to listening to this on my commute home. Thanks all for the links & summary of the debate.

Just listened to it and thought Julie Bindel was fantastic. Warm, humorous, persistent and credible. A great person to have on the side of women (adult human female).

Okay, I may be overreacting.
I just like to know about credentials, when a journalist is on a radio show to talk about issues surrounding a potential law change and dismisses the affect on all women and girls.

I bang in about this stuff at home all the time but still my DP gets confused half the time about which way round it works

Mine too. But it's a good example of how the TRAs manipulate language to their advantage. "Trans identified male" is a much clearer term.

I just listened in my lunch and snort-choked at Julie Bindel:

When I use the term "butch" I mean visible obvious lesbians I don't mean those who look like they could go round kick-starting their own vibrators, I mean just visible obvious lesbians- who are now being told and asked "when are you transitioning"

BRAVA

That plus German Shepherds and PENIS.

Wonderful stuff JB

hackmum, be careful. I was deleted and given my first strike for using that term to identify men who want to say they’re women.

Linda Rileyis amember of the national board directors at GLAAD, major player in the US for advocating LGBT rights in the media. It was founded in the 80s for LGB rights and they also have a global initiative, take a look. They launched the UK arm in October 2015 with a two day event at the House of Lords. We live in interesting times 🤔

It is good that they were both discussing it at the same time, instead of a pre-recorded piece - well done Linda for that (low bar!).

It was weird how Linda said she found it difficult to hear that kind of language - not just that she disagrees, or thinks that the words were transphobic, but the words themselves were difficult to hear - it's like any perceived negative words in relation to trans issues take on the power to actually cause pain themselves. From the discussion I took that Linda is an older lesbian who has been around and done stuff. She must have heard misogynistic, homophobic things, but these words from Julie were so awful to her she had to label them 'phobic and say they were hard to hear. It's very peculiar.

I think the language she decided was transphobic was probably referencing male body parts re trans women, in combination with Julie unwilling to be polite and nice and kind about everyone and everything. A combination of words and tone.

Someone up thread mentioned the womans hour twitter feed. This item's just been put on (at 1pm).

I find it very difficult to believe that Linda has never heard of any lesbians being pressured to accept transwomen.

I think it's very clear that Linda has heard it plenty of times. It's just that it automatically translates in her brain as transphobia as the lesbians aren't being 'inclusive' enough.

That was brilliant though. I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there going 'wtf' at Julie saying lesbians don't want penises and beards in their beds (duh) and Linda telling her she's transphobic.

Has Linda Riley never heard of the Cotton Ceiling? Or seen Riley Dennis's video on "transphobic genital preferences"? Really??

Here: twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1069577028331061249

I don’t know why you said lesbians haven’t told you about pressure on girls to have sex with trans women @LindaRiley8 as I thought we discussed that when we met? And I’ve asked you specifically to cover a list of issues worrying lesbians. Should I resend it?

Linda Riley
‏**@LindaRiley8**
I said I I have never heard direct from lesbians who have said they have been pressured, of course I have heard the myths you and many others try to portray as reality.