Nice thread with lovely wishes for transpeople

[interestingdebatetoday]

Can we have a thread where we just say nice things we wish for transpeople by gender critical feminists? We are always framed as horrible bigots when actually a lot of concerns stem from a place of being caring maternal women.

So actually what do we think? Rather than what they (TRA's I mean, I know there are a few GC TW who understand our motives are not transphobia or bigotry) say we think because we are trying to keep our own rights

I'll start with a few of my own thoughts:

• I wish for transpeople to be comfortable in their bodies, I feel gender dysphoria must be incredibly difficult to live with and I hope that they find support available to help them and aren't stuck with waiting lists that last years or fobbed off with ten mins when they do want support

• I wish for transpeople to have safe access to drugs they may need that have a decent safety rate and have been tested for long enough that they aren't being human ginea pigs or suffering horrific side effects

• I wish for transpeople to have safe spaces for transpeople in prisons, shelters etc

• I wish for transpeople not to be unable to enjoy sex as a side effect of drugs or surgery

... I'm hoping that this will continue in a nice way... and perhaps the debates can stay on other threads so it is absolutely clear that we don't hate transpeople, we would just like to keep our own rights but we are actually pretty thoughtful and concerned in some of our arguments for fellow human beings

My lovely wishes for trans people are:
1- I wish you would stop preying on the bodies of (our gender non-conforming) children.
2- I wish you would deny rapists support to self-id out of the correct incarceration facilities.
3- I wish more of you would rally around women who are being no platformed and silenced.
4- I wish you realise more quickly than you have, that women have faced down centuries of misogyny to secure our rights and we are not giving them up for a handful of well placed pharma backed trans-activists.

I wish for excellent and thorough research that leads to a variety of approaches for resolving gender dysphoria/body dysmorphia, including non medical resolution.

*I wish for children not to be pushed into accepting one or other set of stereotypes so that they feel they have to be trans.

*I wish for young girls/women not to feel that being female is made so unbearable for them that they have to identify out of it.

We gender critical women have to qualify every single statement we make on this issue by opening with 'trans people deserve to be respected and live lives free from discrimination' etc and we're still met with death threats! However well-intentioned, this thread is playing along with the TRA agenda - by constantly making us answer to accusations of transphobia and other emotional blackmail in an attempt to silence us and as a distraction from the issues surrounding women's rights that we need to discuss. Sorry, but I've had enough, my respect for human rights for all goes without saying, it shouldn't be questioned simply because I wish to preserve the rights of women.

As LangCleg said.

A couple of years ago I may have joined in with the niceness, but the intervening time has done much to remind me that I am bound as much by my socialisation as I am by the rest of social stereotypes.

I refuse to continually attempt to justify myself based on my not being 'nice' because I don't believe women have willlies!

I wish people could dress how they want without social stereotypes telling them they are wrong. If as an adult you want to operate on your body, that’s ok. Children shouldn’t have any medical intervention at all. Men do not need access to women only spaces and I shouldn’t be forced to lie about biology.

I wish trans people would wake up to what is happening to women and children in their name.
I wish trans people would start to see women’s rights as human rights, there isn’t much of that going on at the moment.
I wish trans people would stop trying to brainwash everyone else. Sympathy in bucketloads for having to navigate the world whilst living with gender dysphoria but you cannot change sex and trample over sex based rights. That’s about as nice as I can muster today.

Is this the feminist gender critical version of 'wifework'?

I don't wish anyone harm, but why must 'we' centre trans people in EVERYTHING?

Being 'extra special nice' to people who want to take a spiked baseball bat to our faces? That is a 'no' from me. Thanks.

No idea sackrifice

We seem to be going backwards:

1980s: gender bending at its peak. Glamrock through to post punk youth wore whatever took their fancy and gay, straight or bi, you fancied whomever you liked, dressed in whatever took your fancy.

1990s: Manbags and guyliner, not a woman's dress my dress - men started claiming the trappings of woman for themselves. Labelling feminine articles a man things. Metrosexual Man was king!

2010s: Men now want to colonise all of 'woman', to own 'womanhood', being female is being positioned as hate crime. Transnonbinarymultiplygendered is in ascendance.

2030s: People wake up and wonder what the fuck just happened and wish for Bobby Ewing's shower scene / The Tardis to be real!

Or did I just notice a conspiracy...

Trans ideology is homophobic and misogynist to its core. I see no point in wishing the movement well when I know that anything less than slavish adherence to the mantra that TWAW results in accusations of transphobia from TRAs.

There is no middle ground. If you do not - and cannot - agree that transwomen must automatically be entitled to access all women only spaces you are considered an enemy. There are transwomen who don't think so - Miranda Yardley is one - but from what I see they're very much a minority.

It goes without saying that no one should be denied access to housing or medical care. It goes without saying that everyone should be safe.

I'm not so sure about employment as that depends very much on how an individual presents themselves. There are some bizarre looking middle aged transwomen. I won't attach any images because it would be unkind but I imagine most people will have seen examples. Fifty plus transwomen wearing pigtails and lace edged ankle socks, for instance.

I see it as being a bit like people who choose to have facial tattoos. If you make decisions that mean few employers are going to want you in a forward facing role then you can't be surprised if your job opportunities are affected.

This is patronising. Most of the GC people on these boards wish trans people no ill at all.

I wish I never started the thread now, a few people understood my sentiment

A lot seem to think the title was "nice thread with lovely wishes for trans idealogy"

It wasn't - it was transPEOPLE

A lot of my concerns as a GC woman do factor around concerns for children who identify as trans, transmen, transwomen who are GC themselves, transpeople with autism or depression or other factors. They stem from compassion for people... not compassion with an idealogy!

This thread wasn't for the benefit of TRA's. If it was I would start one called "I'm not a transphobe" ffs but I prefer not to engage with them. Transpeople on the other hand... include a lot who are not TRA's

Mate, you started a thread asking for female emotional labour. You were never going to get all positive replies regardless of whether that emotional labour was to be performed for trans people or something else. What did you expect? It's a feminist board!

Nobody has been asked for female emotional labour

It's simple - you don't want to... you don't comment

You do... you comment

It's never been compulsory to comment on threads and some people liked the idea!

"A lot seem to think the title was "nice thread with lovely wishes for trans idealogy"

It wasn't - it was transPEOPLE "

The point still remains that we're being asked to prove that we're nice and defend ourselves in the face of a tireless smear campaign by TRAs: it's hardly the first time we've been asked to do this, to emotional blackmail is constant. It's a bit like being told to smile while you're being punched in the face. You can choose to go along with the narcissistic abuse if you wish, don't be surprised if others won't.

Trans people are benefiting from the TRA ideology. Very few trans people are standing alongside women - where is the trans movement that recognises sex based rights? Where is the trans group telling children they deserve a childhood free of adult agendas- dress how you want want, play with you want, you don’t need a label?
When I see my rights as a woman being destroyed because trans people have placed themselves above women as a group, then I don’t have much compassion left.

You know, IP, interestingly the regular posters on here who are trans and who engage in rational and respectful dialogue, seem to get it that we're not horrible bigots. I wonder why that is.

OP not IP! Jesus.

Men: women shut up

Other women: women shut up

If YOU disagree with the thread, YOU are not being asked to comment on it. Nobody is hounding you down saying make sure you put your nice comment in

What is not fair is you telling other women to shut up if they wish to speak or do want to contribute and suggesting that commenting nicely harms feminists

We are always framed as horrible bigots when actually a lot of concerns stem from a place of being caring maternal women.

That's a very sexist perspective, OP. I'm concerned about so-called trans children, yes, but my opposition to trans ideology comes from hard edged realism not some wafty maternal essence. A lot of my views have their basis in what is known about male violence.

Nobody has been asked for female emotional labour But you did!

Can we have a thread where we just say nice things we wish for transpeople by gender critical feminists? We are always framed as horrible bigots when actually a lot of concerns stem from a place of being caring maternal women. What does that mean if not "Women, come and say something pleasant for trans people so other people will realise we are just being mothering.

Deeply unpleasant - especially for those of us who are not mothers and/or have no maternal thoughts about any trans individual!

As deepwater said, plenty of trans posters seem to survive exchanges of posts with other posters here.

If YOU disagree with the thread, YOU are not being asked to comment on it But you asked if we could have a thread too just say nice things and are being told no, by some posters.

And you are now telling those posters not to answer... which is the same as "shut up some women"

Why does it bother you so much that some posters see being asked to 'play nice' as being asked to play up to gender stereotypes and therefore is, in itself, a harmful thing?

• apologies for the errant 'o' in there

What is not fair is you telling other women to shut up

Oh, get a grip FFS. Nobody's told you, or anyone else, to shut up. You started a thread. People responded. You didn't like all the responses. C'est la vie.