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Original poster

In defence of deadnaming

606 replies

welshgendercrit · 28/11/2018 14:43

For ‘deadnaming’ is just a Newspeak word designed to demonise the telling of historical truths. Not satisfied with seeking to control contemporary discussion and attitudes, now trans activists and their allies (all institutions, in essence) want to control the past itself. History. No way. The past happened, it was true, and we should not allow that to be erased and forgotten just to make some people feel better about themselves.

Yet again spiked (which I never used to read) has written a good, hardhitting, sensible article on transactivism.

www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/11/in-defence-of-deadnaming/

OP posts:
ChewyLouie · 28/12/2018 19:53

No Rat, anywhere else in your world Fox could use cis and you’d nod your head in agreement.
But not anywhere else in THE world, most people would think he/ she was mispronouncing ‘this’ .
Ps since you’re tons of pointing out bullying, check out the video of a transwoman having a hissy fit over being called Sir.

starcrossedseahorse · 28/12/2018 19:53

Male violence writ terrifyingly large.

NonExistentFox · 28/12/2018 19:56

If she'd said "cis" at my family's Christmas dinner nobody over 25 other than me would have had any idea what she meant.

Do they know what "lesbian eugenics" is though?

AngryAttackKittens · 28/12/2018 19:58

Gosh, my poor family are so ignorant, must remember to scold them. But, you know, in an educational way, as if dispensing vital knowledge from on high.

FFSFFSFFS · 28/12/2018 19:58

I'm not married but I've changed my last name because I'm NC with both my parents and my father in particular was extremely violent.

I do go a bit tense if I have to refer to my previous last name or someone else does.

IT WOULD NOT OCCUR TO ME to think that someone should never be able to refer to my previous last name.

What about women who changed their names when they got married but got divorced. What dead naming rules should apply to them?

People's previous names is actual true accurate history.

NonExistentFox · 28/12/2018 20:03

"lesbian eugenics" is not a thing, it's OK.

sackrifice · 28/12/2018 20:10

I was laughing at the idea that XX women don't have anal sex with each other, actually.

The actual question related to two men who identified as women, nobody mentioned two actual women. Looks like you can't visualise two men identifying as women as 'lesbians' either.

NonExistentFox · 28/12/2018 20:14

There was an implied contrast with Natal Women lesbians. In either scenario they may be having anal sex with each other.

Ereshkigal · 28/12/2018 20:15

Ooh, was it me Eresh? Sounds like the kind of thing I'd say.

It was. Not sure most of FWR wanted it banned though. But I agree with you that fair's fair.

AngryAttackKittens · 28/12/2018 20:19

You want to be careful there, I've seen some TRAs object vehemently to the term "natal" on the grounds that they were born as women too, somehow.

OlennasWimple · 28/12/2018 20:21

FWR "regulars" frequently disagree with each other Confused

For example, Lass doesn't believe in female socialisation (and I think doesn't call herself a feminist), though most on here do. I don't believe that abortion should be available on demand to term, though most in here do. Italian is a practicing Christian, though most on here are avowed atheists. There are as many different views on 2nd wave feminism as there are posters. But we are respectful to each other and listen to each other's perspectives.

So enough with the "you don't like anyone who disagrees with you all" stuff.

And a man and a transwoman having sex? That's two gay men having sex. The only way to "straightify" the hypothetical examples is to take a transwoman and a transman, as that boils down to a heterosexual couple . HTH

Datun · 28/12/2018 20:21

Datun. Seriously. Anywhere else in the world Fox could just say "cis". And you think she should feel ridiculous for pandering to the linguistic demands that GC feminists have made on this site? She goes out of her way to be understood on your terms and you ridicule her?

'The world'.

Oh Rat.

OldCrone · 28/12/2018 20:22

For Rat and Fox, below is a paragraph from the post at the top of the FWR board posted by MNHQ about the censoring of certain terms. This was not our doing. Certain people complained about our use of pronouns and terms such as TM, so MNHQ banned them. In order to be fair to both sides, they also banned the use of cs and t**f, which many here find offensive. If you want to complain about this censorship, you should complain to the TRAs who persuaded MNHQ to put it in place. Not us.

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.

NonExistentFox · 28/12/2018 20:24

And you would say "Natal Men Are Men and by your standards could also be TW". Ergo Non-Trans Men.

AngryAttackKittens · 28/12/2018 20:24

I think "cis" is a silly word but wouldn't have argued for banning it. I don't want any words banned, really, but I am not MNHQ so it's not my decision.

RatRolyPoly · 28/12/2018 20:27

Embarrassing fact; up until recently I thought "cis" was pronounced "sigh", like cyborg. I quite like being a cy-woman.

OldCrone · 28/12/2018 20:27

On here if I say man you might think I mean TM.

Unlikely, fox. On here, if you say man, we think you mean someone who was born with a penis. However they identify. If you mean a transman, you can say 'transman'. The term c*s is totally unnecessary - there are men, women, transmen and transwomen. It's quite simple.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 28/12/2018 20:28

Christ on a bike Fox. Here's a tip for the future.

if you mean 'men', say 'men'

literally any english speaking person will understand precisely what you mean

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 28/12/2018 20:28

Its not banned

Youre allowed to use it about yourself and to discuss it

Just not allowed to use it generally or 'at' another poster

I dont think anyone argued on here for banning it

Personally i fully believe you reap what you fucking sow.....call for a ban on some words and its gonna be tit for tat

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 28/12/2018 20:31

I must admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude watching Stephen Whittle's fury at having their language policed after having a post deleted for using the word cis.

AngryAttackKittens · 28/12/2018 20:34

Exactly, Rufus. TRAs demanded that certain words be banned, or posts including them deleted, and in response MNHQ banned what they saw as the words that offended both sides. The solution to this would have been to not make a list of forbidden words in the first place. Rather than to whinge because you didn't mean for anyone to ban your words, only the ones those other bastards use.

Mariotta · 28/12/2018 20:40

I'm for everyone using all the words they like. I have a particular affection for the word man and the accurate usage of. Also, I enjoy a good argument. No time for all this faffing about with rules business, beyond no threats. But it is what it is and, as Rufus says, the censorious reap what the censorious sow. We all have to do our best to be rule-compliant, even if it is boring.

Also: bah. Bloody guests. Why aren't they all gone by Boxing Day night? A good argument on this thread and a full scale rebellion going on over a Certain Video. I'm going to miss all the fun.

Have fun all - within the rules, natch!

FloralBunting · 28/12/2018 20:42

The solution to this would have been to not make a list of forbidden words in the first place. Rather than to whinge because you didn't mean for anyone to ban your words, only the ones those other bastards use.

But that's the gig, innit? "I say what I like, you say what I like, everyone's happy. Say it. Say 'everyone's happy."

I mean, I couldne give a monkey's what silly words you use and pretend mean anything relating to anything else. But if you insist I can't use certain words that explain who I mean, then I'm not going to sob uncontrollably that you aren't allowed to use use words you like to use either.

NonExistentFox · 28/12/2018 20:42

Youre allowed to use it about yourself and to discuss it

Just not allowed to use it generally or 'at' another poster

I was using it generally to distinguish from trans women and it got deleted:

"Nobody is suggesting that the word lesbian means you are attracted to men. We're talking about trans women. The point you're missing is that plenty of lesbians who meet your own restrictive definition of the term do however have no problem recognising trans women and [¢!$] women who sleep with them as lesbians."

FloralBunting · 28/12/2018 20:44

Yes, that's right. You've just been told you're not allowed to use it generally, and you've just told us that's what you did.