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Original poster

In defence of deadnaming

606 replies

welshgendercrit · 28/11/2018 14:43

For ‘deadnaming’ is just a Newspeak word designed to demonise the telling of historical truths. Not satisfied with seeking to control contemporary discussion and attitudes, now trans activists and their allies (all institutions, in essence) want to control the past itself. History. No way. The past happened, it was true, and we should not allow that to be erased and forgotten just to make some people feel better about themselves.

Yet again spiked (which I never used to read) has written a good, hardhitting, sensible article on transactivism.

www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/11/in-defence-of-deadnaming/

OP posts:
sackrifice · 28/12/2018 18:32

Fwiw I did skim the thread and all I can really ascertain is that despite no-one actually saying they want to make dead naming illegal you're all completely sure it's what trans people want, and that they're taking subversive and underhand steps to achieve it. Despite not actually saying it. Because then the game would be "up", right?

Posting without your italics, but wasn't there a case just recently where a chap wanted to not be deadnamed and so sent some officers around the house of a certain writer? You know, it being what a certain trans activist wanted and all? I mean if it wasn't illegal then why would the police race round someone's house to tell them to stop it?

And whilst you are at it, how can two men who identify as women, having anal sex, be lesbians exactly?

Datun · 28/12/2018 18:38

It's just I've seen that be a concern before and I'm sure anyone worrying about it will be pleased to hear it's unfounded.

It's about bullying and intimidation. Things that are going on, right now. Way before anything can get to court, or anyone has the money for them to get to court.

Things are going on in parallel. Legal precedents in countries that have more trans laws, like suing women for not touching your penis. And protocols, like a famous and influential transactivist telling Twitter that the sex of the person giving them a security pat down is theirs to decide. And it needs to be someone of the opposite sex, purleese.

RatRolyPoly · 28/12/2018 18:40

wasn't there a case just recently where a chap wanted to not be deadnamed and so sent some officers around the house of a certain writer?

I honestly don't know, you'll have to tell me! When I first saw this thread I thought I must have missed some public call for dead naming to be illegal. I Googled it and everything, but the only thing that comes up is Mumsnet threads about how trans people totally want this and will stop at nothing! (Embellishment my own.)

I just wondered what the whole premise was really, seeing that I can't seem to find a single suggestion that anyone thinks it should be universally illegal.

Happy to be educated though.

And whilst you are at it, how can two men who identify as women, having anal sex, be lesbians exactly?

Oh, can we make this about straight people instead please? So a man and a trans woman having anal sex and being straight? It just makes me more comfortable and it amounts to the same thing.

RatRolyPoly · 28/12/2018 18:40

Almost the same thing, anyway.

Datun · 28/12/2018 18:43

Yes, a transwoman who identifies as a lawyer has claimed that deadnaming them has led to the culprit being visited by the police. The dead naming was because the financial irregularities of their past were coming back to bite them.

The person was, indeed, visited by the police.

RatRolyPoly · 28/12/2018 18:44

Datun that all sounds very cloak and dagger, like, "bad things are happening, in the shadows, in far away lands...". I mean bullying and intimidation, there's too muck of that everywhere, but what are you actually referring to with regards to deadnaming? I keep asking and all anyone can tell me is "Winter is coming" Confused

Datun · 28/12/2018 18:45

Rat, I can't tell you. You have to go onto Twitter. I don't want to get a visit by the police.

Take a look at Graham Linehan's Twitter threads.

RatRolyPoly · 28/12/2018 18:46

You're going to have to link me Datun because this is still making little sense to me.

A trans person reported deadnaming to the police, presumably as harassment?

The police visited that person.

The end?

NonExistentFox · 28/12/2018 18:46

The lesbian question isn't just about lesbians. It's about sexual orientation, and is wholly contingent on whether you believe someone can change sex.

It's contingent on whether you define people you fancy by chromosomes or by gender.

What exactly is the point of the term 'lesbian' if it can mean two men who identify as women having anal sex with each other?

If they became the majority I'd probably be agreeing with you but they're not, and I'm already co-existing with the political lesbians and the Lesbians Who Also Fuck Straight Non-Trans Men.

sackrifice · 28/12/2018 18:47

Oh, can we make this about straight people instead please? So a man and a trans woman having anal sex and being straight? It just makes me more comfortable and it amounts to the same thing.

No, we can't. We were discussing the concept of a 'lesbian', which apparently can be a woman, or a man who identifies as a woman. Which means that two men who identify as women having anal sex, means lesbian sex. But I cannot understand why this is not gay sex. Lesbians don't usually have anal sex with each other do they?

Datun · 28/12/2018 18:48

You're going to have to link me Datun because this is still making little sense to me.

No, because I'm not trawling through the timeline myself to find it. I'm not on Twitter, either. You don't have to be in order to find this stuff out.

sackrifice · 28/12/2018 18:50

If they became the majority I'd probably be agreeing with you but they're not, and I'm already co-existing with the political lesbians and the Lesbians Who Also Fuck Straight Non-Trans Men.

What do you mean the majority? Does it matter? Lesbians who fuck straight 'non-trans men' [AKA men] are not lesbians surely?

Datun · 28/12/2018 18:50

It's contingent on whether you define people you fancy by chromosomes or by gender.

No it isn't. Dear God.

If you fancy a man who likes to present as a woman, you are still fancying a man. His gender can be anything you like, including feminine. But he is still a man.

So yes you can define the person you fancy by their gender, but that does nothing to indicate your sexual orientation.

Words. Mean. Something.

RatRolyPoly · 28/12/2018 18:52

So it is only on Twitter then?

Datun · 28/12/2018 18:54

Straight Non-Trans Men.

So a non transman? A transman is biologically female so a non transman is a biological woman? And this would make them a biological female who is straight and therefore fancies men? Or women?

I can usually keep up with this up your own fundament claptrap, but I am genuinely confused.

Bowlofbabelfish · 28/12/2018 18:55

And, well, if noone's asking for it to be a blanket rule then what's the problem?

It IS loopy - but if loopy dude gets to not be prosecuted because the crime was comitted by their former male self and they now ID as female - that’s a legal precedent set. And from that your blanket rule is set.
XThese cases re indeed the sort of thing that makes you think ‘that’s bonkers, it’ll get chucked out’ but will they?

People are trying to abuse the legal system. Sending the police round as your personal enforcement squad, creating legal ‘chill.’ - these are all things that shouldn’t be happening.

Deadnaming cannot be illegal. It just can’t, not without serious repercussions

Datun · 28/12/2018 18:55

So it is only on Twitter then?

No. It's in the man's house, and targeted at his wife.

Ereshkigal · 28/12/2018 18:59

So if the police or anyone else have reason to do a search the previous name and record isn't hidden and crimes are linked?

Not so great if they want previous victims to come forward though is it?

AngryAttackKittens · 28/12/2018 18:59

Is it time for dx2+l? again?

Bowlofbabelfish · 28/12/2018 19:00

And the case in Ireland It was Ms. Daly's (my brackets, ms. Daly is the solicitor) contention that the person, who was named on the summons, did not exist and any attempt to amend any summons would compromise that person's constitutional and human rights under the Gender Recognition Act.

www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/10/03/4162881-judge-to-consider-legal-points-in-mayo-case-involving-transgender-person/

sackrifice · 28/12/2018 19:00

I mean bullying and intimidation, there's too muck of that everywhere, but what are you actually referring to with regards to deadnaming?

On twitter. And wordpress. And medium. Ad loads of other places, a woman/man paedophile is getting all traces of their activities which include grooming of girls as young as 10, wiped off the internet.

For the crime of 'deadnaming' them their male name, when they currently refer to themselves as their male and female name. Including on all the lawsuits that they are taking against women who would not perform ball waxing on their lady testicles.

But hey, it appears that [high up in the internet world] people would rather support the rights of a man grooming girls, to get people kicked off of social media for the crime of calling them something that they actually call themselves - than actually stand up against a guy who is grooming 10 year olds...because he calls himself 'trans'.

NonExistentFox · 28/12/2018 19:03

Lesbians don't usually have anal sex with each other do they?

LOL

FWIW I second Rat's straightification of the thought experiment. I'd rather not have lesbians be your sad puppy.

ChewyLouie · 28/12/2018 19:10

So Rat, you rocked up onto a thread having skim read it, shouting accusations of bullying. Pretty feeble.
Add that to describing yourself as a thicko (?) then I’d say you’re the only one demonstrating ‘bonkers, tin foil hattery’

Ereshkigal · 28/12/2018 19:13

It's contingent on whether you define people you fancy by chromosomes or by gender.

No, that would be "sex". As in "homosexual". More than happy if "homogenderal" takes off, why not promote that term to avoid confusing people.

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