Women who aren't feminists

[HumourlessFeminist]

I've been thinking about this for a while.

I was blissfully unaware of feminism for far too long 😳, probably until a few years after DS was born (and after a few years of MNing). Is this a relatively common experience for women? Are women more likely to become feminists as they experience more of what the patriarchy pushes upon them throughout their lives? And why do some women never become feminists?

Pinkky

If you are not a 'feminist' then what are you?If you are a woman with a mind of her own then you are a feminist as far as I'm concerned.

It's funny i avoid feminism post deliberately on MN but like @Pinkyyy I clicked on this one.. I guess it was the title

"HumourlessFeminist I was intrigued, I thought perhaps maybe I was a feminist already and I just didn't know it yet, still not sure to be honest"
Can you say why you think you might not be?

I think it would depend how you define "feminist" as to how many women would say that they are.

If feminism to you is radical feminism then I suppose a lot of women wouldn't identify.

I agree with much of what Lass wrote.

@Badmoonsarising - I just noticed your post-thank you for replying. I'll come back to it after the school run-but just to say I don't think anyone believes that the patriarchy was deliverately created as a means of oppression. It did arise "naturally" but is perpetuated by a mixture of misogyny, inertia, sex stereotyping and self interest.

I'm not a feminist.

I am a successful senior manager, as was my mother. I challenge unfairness and help other women develop and grow. As I help men in my team develop too.

I see myself as egalitarian, I genuinely want equality of opportunity for all,

My experience of feminism have been that it entails some women telling other women what they ought to believe in. It hasn't always felt supportive or positive and at times it has felt 'anti-men'.

I see myself as egalitarian, I genuinely want equality of opportunity for all

Isn't that what feminism is all about?

Just out of curiosity, how many women vs men do you usually find at your level?

What is the definition of feminism that is being used here?

My DM, a teacher, will always say 'I'm not a feminist, but...'

I was out with colleagues 3 years ago and one of the managers aggressively groped my bum and leant in to kiss me. I hadn't made any advances at all. I was horrified and went home. I was actually startled and frightened. Not to mention embarrassed.

I cried and called DM. Her response was 'oh well, he was probably just messing around! Don't go all "feminist" on me now!'

I told my boss the next day. His response was 'don't be a silly girl, loosen up a bit!' I resigned and found another job.

Do you think that's appropriate behaviour?

If not, you're a feminist.

Do you believe that women should have the right to vote? Have equal pay in the work place? Own property? You're a feminist.

There's different strands of feminism. Do I believe that we should live in women-only communes? No. Sometimes.

There's a lot of stigma surrounding feminism and I do believe, 100%, that it is based on irrational fear.

Pick up a book, do some Googling. I believe that it's very important to be clued up on the basics

BertrandRussell because I really don't fully understand what it means to be a feminist. I see these really extreme feminists on TV and I don't relate to them, but do you really have to be like that to be a feminist?

& zzzz

I agree. We don't require labels or fixed identities as such. Identities are fluid and shift and change over time and with life experience. Of course some - such as family of origin, place of birth etc - tend to become fairly central to our sense of ourselves and where we have come from. And of course, being a woman is not negotiable - no matter what you make of it.

For me a feminist is simply a person who believes and acts on the assumption that women are full human beings, worthy of respect.

"I see these really extreme feminists on TV and I don't relate to them, but do you really have to be like that to be a feminist?"
I suppose it depends on wht you mean by extreme! I haven't seen an extreme feminist on TV for years and years.....but maybe that means I'm even extremer? Who are you thinking about?

For me everything has to be 'radical', as in deeply felt and experienced on every level. I can't imagine believing in something in a half hearted way: some days you are, some days you aren't; depends whether it suits you sort of thing. I guess what I'm talking about is integrity.

I think some women reject the label of feminist because they don't like the negative associations often given to it..... and maybe some younger women reject it in the ways that many older women understand it - because in terms of equal rights and so on, we've come a long way even just in my life time. Those rights and 'new normals' have not been a round for that long though. We must not rest on our laurels.

Rejecting gendered expectations unless they fit and feel natural, or liberating and expressive of true self, is a large part of what feminism is, surely? Reserving the right to be who you are in spite of societal expectation. That goes for men too, of course.

I'm embarrassed to say only about 6 years ago I told a young feminist that it was all over bar the working through. I truly thought that the unwanted grouping of my youth and the victim blaming had died out.

I think my circles had changed so much that I was unaware of what was still happening particularly for younger women.

I've woken up now!

Lweji

In my organisation we're fairly evenly represented. The next tier up has slightly more men but the ceo and deputy are female. It feels pretty balanced.

"There's a lot of stigma surrounding feminism and I do believe, 100%, that it is based on irrational fear."
I think that's part of it. But I also think that the media-still pretty make dominated at the higher levels- have a lot to answer for. There has been a pretty relentless anti feminist campaign for years. I am old enough to have been around in the days of Women's Lib, and the characterisation of feminists as bra burning, women hating hairy legged DM wearing Millie Tant types is one that sticks.

In my organisation we're fairly evenly represented. The next tier up has slightly more men but the ceo and deputy are female. It feels pretty balanced.

That's great.
But what do you think you have to thank for that balance?

in my industry women dominate the workforce and yet just about every company reported pay gaps of up to 25% in favour of men, which is shocking when you consider that on average 75% of the employees in any company are women.

and that's after 30 years of 'equal' pay in law.

Bertrand I agree, there is a stigma around being seen as a troublesome feminist with the underlying current being that feminism is not really needed any longer. I always saw myself as a strong woman but the feminist label seemed a step too far - not any more though, thanks to this site 😁

"radical is not a word that is ever going to make me feel comfortable. Our children are taught about “radicalisation”. It is forever associated with violence and “extremist”, for me."

But that's not what the word means. Do you feel equally unhappy with the word "fundamental"?