Women who aren't feminists

[HumourlessFeminist]

I've been thinking about this for a while.

I was blissfully unaware of feminism for far too long 😳, probably until a few years after DS was born (and after a few years of MNing). Is this a relatively common experience for women? Are women more likely to become feminists as they experience more of what the patriarchy pushes upon them throughout their lives? And why do some women never become feminists?

"I don't want to have views like the ones I see expressed on here"

Can you say what views?

the fact that people expressing a different opinion are insulted, mocked etc.

They're argued with - I've seen a fair number of people with contrary points of view flounce off after declaring this board an "echo chamber", however.

Really? So listing recipes, or breakfast cereals, calling people stupid, a man, a handmaiden - that is arguing a point and nit insulting or mocking?

The problem I have is that people often seem to talk about man hating, pulling men down, extremist feminists on television, but when asked to give examples they never do.It makes it very difficult to talk about.

So the view that any and every man is a potential rapist because they belong to the class that is male.

That it's up to men to sort out male violence, as though all men are responsible or should form some sort of vigilante squad. Men are no more responsible for male violence than I am responsible for female violence.

The patriarchy and portraying women as victims of it or having been brain washed by it if you are a woman who disagrees with the rad fems here. I am not a victim of anyone or anything, and I resent being classed as one.

The belittling of any woman who doesn't think as they do, which only ever puts me in mind of the girls at school who reckoned they were "it" and bullied anyone not in their gang.

Is that enough to be going on with?

Don't classify myself as feminist. Suppose I must be a tiny bit. But not strong. Certainly not fervent, like some of the extremists on the feminist boards.

That it's up to men to sort out male violence, as though all men are responsible or should form some sort of vigilante squad.

Almost as if men are obligated to a protective role by their gender, though of course feminists don't believe in gender roles...

Bertrand I can give you an example.

I have major issues with the "we believe you" campaign. I believe firmly in due process and innocent until proven guilty, and that campaign undermines that at an individual level.

I don't automatically believe each individual woman when they report an assault/rape. That's not to say I disbelieve them either, which is what gets thought when I say that. I don't. I don't take a view - that's not my place, that's for the justice system to weigh and take a view on the preponderance of the evidence put forward. And yes, I know that the justice system isn't perfect. And I know the stats. But it's the system we have at the minute and I work from the outside in to improve the system - but that doesn't mean blind "We believe you", because that we believe you, on an individual level undermines due process and one of the founding principles of the British legal system.

female violence is pretty rare, weetabix. 95% of violent crime is committed by men, for example. In my view, whilst lots of men are not violent or misogynists they also do bugger all to challenge those things when they see them. I doubt men make complaints to TV companies, for example, every time they see gratuitous violence against women on screen. I bet they don't drop their mateds who they see repeatedly being sleazy with women. I bet they moan NAMALT every time anyone tries to discuss toxic masculinity. Even the decent ones. I'd love to be proved wrong.

And of course every man is a potential rapist. That's simply a fact. Every car journey could kill you so there are protections in place. Why can't women protect themselves?

And yes, agree with others that I have a problem stating that every man is a potential rapist because he belongeth to the class that is male.

And by all that is pink and sparkly I hate the "to be a feminist you have to deal with all these things and be campaigning on this and this and this and this too and don't forget about this and that is awful and did you remember that". I do my bit. Don't dare try to make me feel inferior.

Weetabix, I haven’t come across anything here advocating the downfall of men . Why would a feminist aim be the downfall of men? Surely all that feminists are doing is centring women, this is not at the expense of men . The patriarchy has been going strong for a few thousand years. I can’t see the downfall of men happening very soon but I do see the imminent erosion it of women’s recently won sex based rights.
Nor do I see aggression here, but I do see that people have strongly held views and accept which can be interpreted differently by each of us.
I think that discussing subjects online is fraught with difficulty as it is easy to fill the missing non verbal communication with our own projections.

But then, I don't fit here. i'm not a rad fem. I'm just one of those lib fem wishy washies doing their bit as best they can.

NAFALT. I actually use it myself quite a bit.

Rivertam I struggle to believe that there are only 5% of women who are violet. You mean only 5% of women are reported

*violent

River you sound like a real man hater. Everyman is a potential rapist. What a load of shit! So this means so is every woman.

Men are much more likely to be the victims of violence than women and much more likely to be subjected to random violent attacks than women.

The 95% doesn't quite tell the whole story. Look at the victims, not just the perpetrators and you'll see that men are overwhelmingly the class of people at risk from male violence.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017#which-groups-of-people-are-most-likely-to-be-victims-of-violent-crime

No woman born female can be a rapist in the UK, simply because the offence of rape requires a penis.

Is that just in the UK or worldwide?

Iv just read it's according to British law.

"Really? So listing recipes, or breakfast cereals, calling people stupid, a man, a handmaiden - that is arguing a point and nit insulting or mocking?"
There any many threads tgt are started on FWR with the intention of being provocative- and the fact tht many are zapped proves that. I do mt think any good faith thread have been filled up with recipes, have they? And yes, people sometimes use intemperate language and they shouldn't. But can't you see it goes both ways? One feminist loses her temper and we're all guilty. A non feminist chucks ou accusations of man hating (for example) or being a snowflake or "not having anything better to do" or "giving feminism a bad name" or worse, and we're just expected to take it.

Under English law a penis is required for rape. So no, women don't rape.
And I agree that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime. That doesn't mean the perp isn't also more likely to be a man.
I don't hate men. But I'm not blinkered as to what men can be. Pointing out facts doesn't make me a hater FFS.

The "every man is a potential rapist" thing is interesting. Some people object to it very much-but still won't use taxis on their own, are very careful not to be alone at night in a bus or train carriage, always tell their friends where they are if they go out on a date with someone they don't know. What are they taking precautions against?