Feeling like I don’t want to use our local swimming pool

[Sunisshining3228]

Hello
I’m a lurker here. Just wanted to share something here.
I went swimming this morning at the pool in the area that we moved to not long ago. Haven’t swum for exercise for a while but used to love it when I was growing up and used to compete etc.
It was a unisex changing rooms. There were cubicles and lockers which meant a bit of privacy but the showers were two rows facing each other. Men were making good use of the showers, one older guy was giving himself a thorough soaping down but I didn’t notice any women lingering to use it. I felt pretty uncomfortable even pausing to rinse the chlorine off because it was not private. Not saying the men were out of order or anything but they were looking and I don’t want to feel looked at by a man when using a shower.
I had to go to work afterwards so needed to use the shower and wash my hair. I felt bad but told myself it was v early In the morning and I asked if I could use the disabled cubicle which has a shower. The pool attendant agreed but I felt bad for using it, I don’t have a disability.
I can kind of see why they designed the changing room this way as it would help mixed sex families and transgender people I guess, but it’s not great for women and adolescent girls. I used to train at a swimming club into my teens and was self conscious, I would have been really put off if our shower area was unisex. It has made me quite reluctant for my daughter to go in for swimming classes/clubs with a changing room like that as well to be honest.
Even drying my hair afterwards and putting on make up, opposite there was a guy drying his hair, probably innocuously looking around at the same time but it just made me want to hurry and get out of there.
I don’t know if I’ll complain cos we just moved here and this seems to be how it is here but I’ll probably re-think swimming again.
It feels like changing rooms have not been designed with women in mind unless we used the disabled cubicle.
Does that mean that being a woman who is uncomfortable about being looked at by men is a disability now?

Now that I think about it, the changing room I walked into and out again after seeing the naked men might have had cubicles in there somewhere. But I wasn't going to walk alone into the room of naked men to find out!! There is only one specific penis I ever want to see and it is attached to DH

Xiaoxiong are you sure you didnt walk into mens by mistake!!!

That's the thing - if the cubicles are within a unisex communal changing room that's not much better and for many women and girls (and men too, of course) would still be a complete no-no.

There is a huge value in single sex spaces. I don't understand the refusal to see this. It's very usual in many cultures and communities around the world and has been demonstrated to be very beneficial to women and girls.

Has anyone asked the pools why the showers aren't cubicles?

At my gym the swimming pool changing rooms are unisex with cubicles but the showers are in one line next to the pool. The reason being that people were taking too long showering and washing hair, particularly after lessons.

They do have individual showers in the single sex dry side changing rooms for you to shower in, though only 2, so there's always a queue for them too.

Yes Green the sign on the door was both ladies and gents, I opened it thinking there would be two more doors behind it for women and men's changing and walked straight into a main locker room with benches down the middle and naked men. Anyway it sounds like the no nudity signs are definitely needed and as I've said I've emailed them already this morning about it.

Because the showers in many pools are really mostly there for hygiene reasons going into the pool. It helps the cleanliness of the pool and the chemical use to shower first.

More likely a person with disabilities would have seen the room occupied and just waited.

With every chance that no disabled person comes along.

The underlying issue is that Local Authorities are cash strapped. Leisure Centres are closing. And many that remain open, only really do so by focussing on selling memberships to affluent families and the after-work crew.

Far better to have a bit of a short term crisis with women and disabled people all queuing for the limited disabled/private facility, than for a leisure centre to lose a chunk of its female (and probably teenage boys - they often go through a real phase of wanting privacy) user groups. It is in no one's interest to have gender neutral facilities and no queues for the disabled provison in a closed leisure centre. The way to keep public facilities open is to encourage a wide user base thus maximising revenues and community support.

Swimming is almost certanly the major leisure sport for women. Men are much more likely to access team sports. It is also a particularly good sport for older people. Women losing swimming because they no longer feel comfortable, is huge, as it is unlikely that they will take up something else in its place.

I'm absolutely with OP. Women should be listened to, as otherwise we all lose.

Perhaps @GreenEggsHamandChips should also write and campaign for women only areas to ensure no women ever feel its better to use the disabled facilities then realise there is nowhere else private for them to go. That’s the answer here as well as let’s face it it’s probably not only the OP that’s ended up doing this right or wrong.

is in no one's interest to have gender neutral facilities

Omg cubicled gender neutral facilities makes my life so much easier!!!

I'm more likely to be able to use the regular change because on a good day DS can change himself whilst im still in earshot. I'm less likely to have to change (literally) in front of my son. When the kids were both younger it meant that I could sort me and DS whilst still being able to be in earshot of DD. I'm not likely to encounter angry females if the disabled change is occupied and im forced to use a regular changing space

There's massive benefits to gender neutral facilities!!

Far better to have a bit of a short term crisis with women and disabled people all queuing for the limited disabled/private facility

Often getting out of swimming pool is time critical with Special needs. The temperature change might put you at risk of seizure or collapse for example. A queue at the disabled change is never a good thing.

If you want to keep this discussion about gender, don't suggest using the disabled facilities.

Haven't RTFT OP but just wanted to ask; do you know why it is you feel more uncomfortable in your swimming costume in the showers than you do in your swimming costume in the pool?

All of our local swimming pools have the showers directly adjacent to the pool. So anyone showering is entirely visible to everyone in the pool, but then again it's only people in the same swimming costumes that they wore whilst in the pool.

In fact the closest pool to us has full-length glass windows from a seating area*, the till area, and glass windows a floor up from the yoga rooms etc., so anyone in their swimming costume anywhere around the pool can be seen by any number of people in the facility. If this were your local pool, would you not use it? Or is there something specific about the shower areas that feels particularly intimate?

This is a genuine question. I think if you'd feel really uncomfortable in my local pool, perhaps you might want to ask yourself if you're happy with how restrictive that discomfort could be to you. I would suggest that whilst you're completely entitled to feel however you do, I think it's safe to say it is an unusual level of discomfort, given how well-used facilities like these are. We all find it hard to know which of our social anxieties are well-founded and which are just holding us back. Either way, I see most other people have pointed out that the disabled shower is not the answer you need.

*Actually ALL the local pools have full-length glass from other areas of the building.

@falalarr i'd be more likely campaigning for higher penalties for perpetrators of any kind of violence or abuse, and increased access unisex facilities generally.

I'm not at all convinced the insistance on totally segrated spaces is leading to an entirely healthy place for future generations of women. Choice of spaces is probably best

why it is you feel more uncomfortable in your swimming costume in the showers than you do in your swimming costume in the pool

At a guess, because in the pool most of you is under water, and thus somewhat obscured.

discussion about gender

Actually it is a discussion about sex. Many women want single sex facilities. You clearly don't. But that does not preclude you from having some understanding of other peoples concerns or needs.

I would really not like that set up, you can't wash properly if you have your swimming costume on and you can't always just wait to go home to shower (what if you're going for a swim before work for instance?). My local pool (not UK) has single sex facilities and it's so much better, it took me a while to get used to everyone being naked (rules are that you must shower and sauna naked) but when it's all people of your own sex you grow comfortable with it. Plus I think it's really great for my daughter to grow up seeing what normal bodies look like instead of magazine bodies. If they changed it to unisex I am pretty sure a lot less women and girls would go swimming, and probably less men too.

Actually it is a discussion about sex

By most of the population rightly or wrongly gender and sex are used interchangeably. My use of gender did not impair anyones understanding of my post. And actually in the context of my post gender or sex would have been entirely descriptive. And gender neutral was used in your original post not sex neutral

Amusingly it's my linguistic use you use to suggest my lack of understanding/empathy of others needs. The rest of that post was examples of why the statement it in "no one's interest to have gender neutral facilities" has no understanding of a whole section of the community's needs and concerns

At a guess, because in the pool most of you is under water, and thus somewhat obscured.

Perhaps it's my having small children, but I definitely spend as much time milling around the edge as I do under the water

Most pools have these unisex facilities( and call them ridiculous things like 'changing villages'). They usually have communal showers AND cubicle showers. Did you ask if there were cubicle showers other than the one for disabled access?
I have taken my sons swimming for years and have never felt comfortable having to let them go and get changed out of my sight when they were still young and vulnerable, so they work for people in that situation. However, using them as a lone female, I don't feel comfortable to linger in the shower and just do a quick hair wash and get out of there...
Maybe it would be better to have male only and female only spaces plus a unisex/family area?

Maybe it would be better to have male only and female only spaces plus a unisex/family area?

This is clearly what should happen. Obviously mixed sex general areas and private cubicles for changing and showering are valuable to a lot of people for various reasons.

But single sex facilities should not be thrown out in order to provide this. Either you have to make everything individual and private or you can save money by making sure that communal changing/washing areas are single sex. Besides anything else it seems deeply unhygienic to create a shower area that actively discourages people from washing properly.

In our swimming pools a thorough, naked shower is required to enter the pool. We have diagrams of the bits you have to wash and everything.

My use of gender did not impair anyones understanding of my post. And actually in the context of my post gender or sex would have been entirely descriptive. And gender neutral was used in your original post not sex neutral

Then you absoutely do not understand what it is all about. Shared mixed sex showers are by definition gender neutral. OP does not want them. Nor do I. I want single sex facilities.

I appreciate that if you do not see a difference between sex and gender and think they are interchangeable, you will not feel much sympathy for OP. However FWIW most people fully understand the difference and many of them are uncomfortable sharing changing/shower facilities with those of the opposite sex.

Yeah I entirely agree with choice, unisex and single sex.

But enforced sex segregated wash facilities would keep as many people at home as enforced unisex sex facilities i think. Can I ask MagicMix how enforced naked segregated facilities that works with disabilities?

I know the showers we have in this country aren't necessarily the best from a hygiene perspective.

@MagicMix Actually thaf begs loys of questions. What does going to the pool look like? Do you carry your swimming costume through the showers or are the lockers after the showers?

the two pools I use the most have open showers close to the pool for showering pre-swim, but they also have both communal and cubicle showers within the single sex changing rooms for a proper post-swim shower. I want a proper, costume-off shower after swimming and as far as I can recall I've always been able to have one in the women's changing room.

These unisex facilities other people are describing sound awful.

Perhaps @GreenEggsHamandChips should also write and campaign for women only areas to ensure no women ever feel its better to use the disabled facilities

Apologies if it was in jest and I misunderstood but that sounds awfully like saying the onus is on genetic females to campaign for additional spaces for transwomen if they don't want to share changing facilities.

Personally, while I really wouldn't like using a unisex changing room I wouldn't feel any justification in using a disabled changing room as a result. While I have been fortunate enough to have never experienced sexual violence, I have been hit by a car and certainly don't use this as an excuse to park in disabled spaces to avoid walking across a car park.

I’m in a country adjacent to where natsku lives (waves, I’m from the HG boards, name changed) and here you also have to shower naked. Everything is open plan AND single sex.

do you know why it is you feel more uncomfortable in your swimming costume in the showers than you do in your swimming costume in the pool?

Yes, in the pool you are in action, dynamic, in control, moving. Action is not an intimate act. Showering you are stationary, moving your hands over yourself. It is a more intimate act. I would hate to shower in front of men.

Most countries you must shower naked before entering the pool. Saunas here are not mixed sex.

In our swimming pools a thorough, naked shower is required to enter the pool

Same here. Very unhygienic to go in the swimming pool without washing thoroughly beforehand.

waves at Yarnswift