I was one of the transactivists on the channel 4 documentary, I regret what I did — this is why

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

Someone who was filmed trying to stop the “we need to talk” session now thinks they were wrong for attempting to shut down debate and realises that they were intimidating women

Qcng "But more crucially their target audience is NOT feminists. It's other trans people. It's trans people themselves reaching out to other trans people (and obviously others curious about the issue). So complaining that it's all male people talking about it is so very petty because they aren't talking about women's issues."

Well, that's an unusual viewpoint! Do you mean that when females speak they should only speak on issues relating to females? Or do you mean males might never have a perspective that includes women? Or something else?

Personally, I want to hear from females on all kinds of issues. Not just things relating to women or women's rights. And I want to hear from trans men ( who are also female).

Trans issues do not just affect women or trans women.

To me it seems that the whole of world conversion in politics, religion, etc and on mass media is dominated by males. This includes on trans issues and on social media that is set up like mass media (e.g. interviews and the like).

So to me wanting more female voices is actually a natural progression from having these channels dominated by make voices.

You are right to point out trans people are sometimes talking to each other exclusively, and sometimes not at all to feminists.

But as a person I am also a woman, a mum, a person of faith, and a person related to a trans identifying person, as well as a feminist.

So I don't really expect to be exclusively labelled simply 'a feminist'.

Basically, there are tons of videos on YouTube made by women talking about feminism, trans issues, all sorts of issues under the sun.

Or do you mean males might never have a perspective that includes women?

Some ppl on this thread were complaining here we have 2 videos not made by women, not talking about feminism. That's because they are basically 2 videos of trans people made by a man reaching out to the Trans community, for the trans community. It's like, "oh my god not every video in the world is made by a woman" sort of response. It's ridiculous.

Women don't have to include men all the time and men don't have to include women all the time. People are entitled to discuss issues that only concern them, eg trans people talking about trans issues without an obligatory mention of women. if they want to. Feminists do this all the time.

Obviously I understand that trans people should consider women's rights and many of them do. Which is why insulting trans people at every opportunity is not going to make progress in this area.

Qcng Of course realise males can talk without including females.

Don't you think trans eomrnmight have something to say in trans issues? There do not seem to be as many videos made by trans men.

"Which is why insulting trans people at every opportunity is not going to make progress in this area." I've got no desire to insult ttans people.

Don't you think trans men might have something...

I personally do not care what Esther looks like or what motive Esther has for transition. Any "insult" - aka criticism - I make of Esther is based on a structural position that sees and condemns the leveraging of sex-based and class-based cultural capital and structural power to remove women's rights.

There do not seem to be as many videos made by trans men.

If you (or a child / young person) types 'am I transgender' into youtube most of the top rated ones are transmen.

I watched quite a few and from memory, without exception, they all said, "If you think you might be, you probably are"

See also this 2016 TEdTalk
A Trans Man at the Doctor's | Toby Walker |
81,448 views

*A few months ago Toby Walkerwas part of a protes against the fact that scheduled mastectomies for females who identify as trans / non-binary were being deferred due to mastectomies for women with breast cancer.^

There are more talks on youtube and some very successful vloggers, many of the transmen make a plea on behalf of transwomen, "who have a much tougher time" etc

There are tons of transmen and transboy icons on YouTube / Twitter / Facebook / Tumblr. They are extremely influential and lead to many starry-eyed young girls following the path to transition.
There are tons of videos made by women / former transmen who have detransitioned, explaining at length their plight, the dangers, the regrets. You only need to search for it to find them.

I've got no desire to insult ttans people That's good. I was commenting on the general tone of this thread not you personally, sorry, a thread which for me has lead to another, what do they call it?
Trans un-peak? Peak GC feminism? Moment.

R0wan
Good grief that person is truly suckered in, with false suicide statistics and everything.
Really really sad.
Imagining you are a toys "dad" when you are child does not mean you are "really a man".
What this person quaintly calls "help" - meaning a lifetime of medicalisation, Testosterone, HRT, and a double mastectomy, and never becoming a man no matter how much you want it, obviously needs gatekeeping. Rushing young adults onto this path is exactly what this person is promoting. They are so dangerous.

Qcng"But more crucially their target audience is NOT feminists. It's other trans people. It's trans people themselves reaching out to other trans people (and obviously others curious about the issue). So complaining that it's all male people talking about it is so very petty because they aren't talking about women's issues."

I actually agree with this. Sometimes we are not the target market. You will always moderate your message depending on who you are talking to - you would explain FGM in a different way to a child than you would an adult, for example. If Esther is trying to speak to other trans people Esther will phrase it in one way. To feminists another. And to people who have no idea about any of this in a third.

And it is good if trans people who are seeing the danger of TRAs do talk about it to other trans (and the woke!). They are more likely to get listened to for a start. But we have long been calling for trans people to make a stand - we shouldn't object to them when they do. I'm not saying I agree with everything Esther has said but I do support their saying it to other trans people.

They are more likely to get listened to for a start. But we have long been calling for trans people to make a stand - we shouldn't object to them when they do.

Esther is not sticking up for women. Esther is no Miranda Yardley. All Esther is doing is realising misogynistic aggressiveness is somewhat counterproductive. Which is something, but we're setting the bar a bit low here I think.

Esther is very much a TRA, who has just written an article about how self IDing MTFs should be allowed to use women's refuges.

R0wantrees "There are more talks on youtube and some very successful vloggers, many of the transmen make a plea on behalf of transwomen, "who have a much tougher time" etc"

And

Qcng

"There are tons of transmen and transboy icons on YouTube / Twitter / Facebook / Tumblr. They are extremely influential and lead to many starry-eyed young girls following the path to transition.
There are tons of videos made by women / former transmen who have detransitioned, explaining at length their plight, the dangers, the regrets. You only need to search for it to find them."

Yes, sorry I have seen this and seen vidoes of Trans men. Sorry I didn't word that well. I meant that the debate in the media and interviews etc seem to be much more centered around trans women than trans men.

The clips I've seen of trans men seem to be more just that, a trans man talking to camera.

Yes, I completely know starry eyed females follow them. It is a tradegy.

However, I was thinking more of interviews, articles etc where questions are asked.

It's like, "oh my god not every video in the world is made by a woman" sort of response. It's ridiculous.

No it's not. That's not what was being said. You're completely missing the point. Please don't misrepresent people's views, including mine.

Qcng "Trans un-peak? Peak GC feminism? Moment" Is it really possible to un-peak trans? Or is it more a realisation the compassion you expect to find in gender critical feminists isn't always there? I've had that moment before too.

Sometimes we need to think more about the lack of compassion for ourselves and other women.

It may be a low bar but it's still better than the ditch some are digging! No, they're not standing up for women. But even if the message is 100% selfish I'm not going to complain if it helps. And if it makes more question they might get a but further along. I can hope.

I completely reject that the GC feminists here lack compassion. There are many, many expressions of sympathy for the difficulties transpeople find themselves dealing with, for a start.
But the women here uniformly express compassion primarily for women - compassion = to suffer with. The women here have a focus on the difficulties and suffering and oppression of women.

As has been said ad nauseam, the only reason trans issues figure here at all is in their intersection with Women's rights.

This particular trans person has made a few steps towards basic decency by acknowledging that threats, violence and intimidation are a bad thing. This is one heck of a baby step towards 'reconciliation', and I and others remain unconvinced as to why it is incumbent upon women to have compassion on someone who has only recently, reluctantly, and rather half heartedly decided that screaming threats at us in a mask is 'unhelpful'.

Yes Ereshkigal I get that. However, I do think that sometimes we can lose support because of how 'we' (gender critical feminists) come across. It's being compassionate for women of course but I do think sometimes we can come across in a certain way (or at least i expect I have!)

I really do not care how I come across and I do not respond well to appeals to female socialisation.

I actually enjoy the bracing sharp words of a feminist who refuses to capitulate, compromise or take her eye off the prize - women's liberation from male domination.

It focuses the mind.

It is also interesting to see how many people find this challenging. It is so gender non-conforming when women refuse to be 'nice' it messes with people's heads.

I really do not care how I come across and I do not respond well to appeals to female socialisation.

This.

And what Floral said. I don't care if other people who have not one scrap of consideration or empathy for the feelings and needs of women think I am "lacking in compassion".

It is also interesting to see how many people find this challenging.

You'll notice there are very few pleas to indulge it due to the sad feels I might be having.

It's like in Reading the week before last, when I walked out of the meeting to a chorus of "shame", from aggressive masked young males very like Esther was in Bristol in thinking they could bully women into silence.

They're wasting their breath on me. I don't feel any shame. I would feel ashamed if I didn't stand against this. I think THEY are the ones who should be ashamed.

I found it very liberating and gratifying when Posie said on TV that "women are allowed to be angry" and when Julia Hartley-Brewer was so fierce saying "don't call me cis!". We need more of that.

I am sure Esther Betts is going to be alright and has heard worse than 'clown'. I think Betts is interested in free speech rather than women's rights, which is fine by me. If Esther Betts can lead the way in getting these nut jobs in masks whom Betts used to belong, to back the fuck off, then that is a big step in getting this discussion happening properly.

You'll notice there are very few pleas to indulge it due to the sad feels I might be having.

Quite.