Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

[drum123]

Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

Think the word is 'off label' prescribing, not 'grey label'.

It's very common practice in the UK.

gmmmg.nhs.uk/docs/ip/Guidelines-on-defining-RED-AMBER-GREEN-STATUS-updated-August-2018.pdf

Items which are listed as Grey are deemed not suitable for routine
prescribing but may be suitable for a defined patient population. Whilst prescribers should think very carefully before prescribing or recommending any of the products on the grey list, there may be exceptional instances when the use of one of these products is necessary for a particular patient. A patient may be deemed exceptional if the patient has a clinical picture that is significantly different to the general population of patients with that condition and as a result of that difference the patient is likely to derive greater benefit from the intervention than might normally be expected for patients with that condition. In addition to be assigned a GREY status these drugs will be also be assigned a RAG to define where prescribing responsibility should lie.

on recent thread, Popchyk wrote,

"this is worth reading

gendergp.co.uk/queries/

From Gender GPs own website. The information has been on there for ages.

Are you being investigated by the GMC?
"I have had numerous complaints to the GMC about my transgender service.
A complaint from Alec Rook questioning whether I was qualified to provide gender care. This was fully investigated and no concerns were found on my fitness to practice in this area.
A letter from Stuart Lorimer, consultant psychiatrist at Charing Cross and GenderCare private clinic regarding my practice with numerous comments and concerns. The GMC decided that the complaint did not need investigating.
Another letter from Stuart Lorimer with further concerns. The GMC did not feel this warranted an investigation.
I raised concerns about James Barrett, consultant psychiatrist at Charing Cross and the GMC did not investigate but instead opened an investigation about me. This was closed with no fault found.
Professor Hindmarsh, via Dr Butler, consultant paediatric endocrinologist has made a complaint about my treatment of a transgender child. This investigation is currently ongoing.
A ‘senior doctor’ from Charing Cross has made an anonymous statement to the CQC which has now ben passed to the GMC. He outlines various concerns he has, none of which he can substantiate."

Also:

"As there are a large number of patients relying on my care who can’t get the help they need from anywhere else, and because there is a high incidence of self harm and suicide in this patient group, I am going to transfer the hub of my service to my other residence in Malaga, Spain so that I can continue providing care while the regulatory processes are being sorted out".

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385789-Helen-Webberley-found-guilty?pg=5

Some of us "been there/ done that" TS men and women have been saying for a while that there will be "career ending / family relationships ending" court cases over all this in 20 years time.

I think so. I have heard insinuations that in the US there are steps to 'de-medicalize' gender dysphoria not to 'demarginalize' transpeople but to shield medical professionals from liability. (Not a lawyer, so not sure how much there is to it. But if true that's appalling.)

Also: Isn't it funny how the same people who will insist that their 'lived experience' and therefore their opinion trumps any scientific or professional analysis aren't really keen on hearing what dissenting TS people have to say?

thread discussing Helen Webberley's interview on 5Live recently.

At the beginning of the show, she said defining 'biological sex' was 'tricky'
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374512-trans-debate-bbc-5live-post-9am-today-mon-24th-sept

May 2018
Interview with Helen Webberley in the Independent about the Channel 4 Genderquake debate:
(extract)

"I have been very open about my individualised approach to the treatment of transgender patients, irrespective of age, and my firm belief that they should be able to access the support and medication they need in a timely and supportive manner, and where possible via their GP. In line with self-identification of gender, I firmly advocate informed consent and individualised care.

This has attracted a certain amount of media interest. So I was not surprised to receive an invitation to appear on Genderquake, part of Channel 4’s series of programmes which are described as an opportunity “to encourage and to enlighten public discussion about sexuality and gender identity”.

My initial response was entirely positive. There is an overwhelming need for informed debate round the topic of society’s approach to transgender people and how we can better support this marginalised group. As a medical professional who has had firsthand experience of meeting and treating more members of the transgender community than most in my position, I was keen to add my voice to the mix.
This changed rather abruptly after I dug a little deeper. I spoke to a GP registrar and LGBTQ+ advocate (Dr Adrian Harrop) who had also been contacted by Channel 4, as well as a number of friends, fellow trans advocates and members of the trans community. The overwhelming opinion was that this had the potential to be yet another orchestrated engineered battle between trans people and those who essentially deny their very existence."

www.independent.co.uk/voices/trans-genderquake-debate-channel-4-germaine-greer-munroe-bergdorf-lgbt-rights-a8341776.html

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3243516-Dr-Helen-Webberley-GenderGP-Interview-in-The-Independent-re-GenderQuake-Debate

I have heard insinuations that in the US there are steps to 'de-medicalize' gender dysphoria not to 'demarginalize' transpeople but to shield medical professionals from liability.

The whole argument over whether gender dysphoria is an illness makes no sense.

It's not an illness so men can claim to be women because of some sort of female essence, and require no medical treatment.

But at the same time, children with gender dysphoria need to be treated immediately with puberty blockers followed by cross-sex hormones and surgery as soon as they're old enough. If they don't follow this route they will probably kill themselves.

So which is it? Is it an illness? If so, why are so many adults not having treatment? If it's not an illness, why are children being medicated?

I do wonder whether the government which is offloading responsibility for people who identify as transgender onto charities like Stonewall and Mermaids is a deliberate ploy to try to avoid financial liability on the government's part.

When lawsuits start to come in, Stonewall and Mermaids will go bust. And then just probably start up again anew from scratch.

Leaving taxpayers to pick up the bill.

thread discussing Helen Webberley's interview on 5Live recently. At the beginning of the show, she said defining 'biological sex' was 'tricky'

The problem with Webberley is that she really believes this whole bullshit and is, no doubt, convinced that she is doing the right thing. And for some, adult, clients, who have sorted their shit out, a compassionate doctor and no waiting times will be a good thing.

Doesn't change the fact that her rushing people through transition who may not have sorted their shit out and basically without gatekeeping has great potential to cause great harm, particularly when it comes to underage patients.

But she is too much caught up in her 'mission' to understand that. Which makes her dangerous.

Video, 'How to Get Hormones in 3-4 weeks' praise for how Dr Webberley and GenderGP enabled this with details of referral & assessment process as well as fees etc:

curvetube.com/How_to_get_hormones_in_3-4_weeks_MtF_&_FtM~UK_GenderGP/r6nDDZabKJQ.video

'In line with self-identification of gender, I firmly advocate informed consent and individualised care.' ~ Webberley

This is what I don't get about this whole 'affirmative care' approach of self-ID that informed consent boils down to: Surely, if anyone is set on going down some life changing path, a thorough exploration of their motivations and expectations with a professional psychotherapist will be a good thing, if for no other reason than to manage the transition better?

Surely, if anyone is set on going down some life changing path, a thorough exploration of their motivations and expectations with a professional psychotherapist will be a good thing, if for no other reason than to manage the transition better?

The point made earlier this week by Bob Withers (psychotherapist) in articles and interviews:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3427836-Bob-Withers-on-GMB-and-This-Morning-today

And for some, adult, clients, who have sorted their shit out, a compassionate doctor and no waiting times will be a good thing.

I|f Webberley had stuck to prescribing for adults I doubt she'd have found herself in so much trouble. For adults who might otherwise get the drugs they want from the internet, she was probably a good option. But giving them to children tends to be seen in a different light.

Exactly.

I was thinking about this program and why girls are so keen to transition at this age. I wondered whether the popularity they gain as shown by these lovely transman and their YouTube success is very tempting for lonely teenage girls.

I also wondered whether the popularity of these young trans men is because they represent a lovely gentle safe female version of a young man. I think they would be so much more accessible to young girls precisely because they are female. Young teenage lads cannot understand or empathize with teenage girls in the same way. They all seem so nice and friendly and gentle and well balanced but then women are....

That's a good point, M-E. Trans men I have met have invariably been exactly as you describe. I'd not thought of that, only of the hard road they often have to walk to be accepted by men.

Further to my post last night

(So with rudimentary science, one can surmise the amygdala remains in control for longer while blocked, the frontal cortex remains undeveloped. Fuck knows what happens when cross sex hormones happen then.)

I've also just thought about the autistic brain. (I teach children with autism and have done a number of courses). It's organised differently, there are definite differences in how different areas coordinate or dominate or communicate to each other (less communication generally, less able to bring ideas together and see the bigger picture.) obviously this is an extremely sweeping statement and probably more pertinent to those whose autism is very disabling in terms of communication/ accessing the world around them. But I'm pretty sure hormone blockers aren't a going to in any way help this situation either.

(Sorry I need to read ready of thread but not much time today.)

As I've just said on the Trans Windows thread. I've only watched half of this so far, and as a Trans Widow, it actually made me feel grateful that my ex turned into a frothing TRA. It made it much easier to leave than if he'd been earnestly gender critical.

If he'd have been understanding, would I have felt I had to stay and be miserable?

Neurotrasher; good point about autism/ medication.

It doesn't really make any odds if a doctor is well meaning. If their practice is causing harm to anyone, but especially the already vulnerable, that doctor is behaving indefensibly.

I also wondered whether the popularity of these young trans men is because they represent a lovely gentle safe female version of a young man.

This rings true. Just like a gay male friend.

Thank you Stella and Channel 4 for making the programme. It explored the issues really well in a sensitive humane way. I think it is a good point about the transmen being very sensitive and being attractive to young women -I think they are similar in some ways to teen idols.

I would welcome further programmes on different issues . But also a follow up on the featured individuals in 2 or so years time would be very interesting to see how they have progressed.

I also wondered whether the popularity of these young trans men is because they represent a lovely gentle safe female version of a young man.

The teacher who whistleblew and was quoted in the Mail on Sunday commented:
(extract)
"Carol says transgender pupils at her school sometimes adopt the names of trans YouTubers who have found fame online.

There have been times when a group of pupils who are identifying as boys all use the same name.

Some internet celebrities have been accused of influencing younger children to think they are transgender when they are not.

In one video, popular star Alex Bertie tells a young person who said they were ‘confused’ and ‘didn’t feel trans enough’ that they were ‘repressing’ their transgender identity.

Carol believes that many of the girls who come out as transgender are, in fact, lesbian. They date other girls who are both trans and non-trans, she reveals.

‘From talking to these girls, the thought of being a heterosexual female is terrifying for them, but being known as a lesbian is also unpalatable, so they become transgender.

I think as lesbians they would face more bullying but as transgender children they almost become popular.’

The attraction, she says, is that by becoming trans these socially awkward children who have struggled to find acceptance suddenly see their popularity rocket.

‘They have girls flocking around them like handmaidens because they look like pretty little boys,’ she says.

‘They mirror teenage fantasies, resembling popstars like Justin Bieber. These trans kids actually become quite powerful in the school.’

The teacher said she felt compelled to speak out to protect pupils, many of whom she believes could already be taking the powerful drugs

She adds that one of the most worrying ways these pupils exercise their newfound power is by influencing younger children, ‘who are nearly always autistic’, to think they, too, are transgender, which reminds her of grooming.

Carol told of how distressed children would come to her and say they are trans, explaining to her: ‘I was feeling very lost, but [an older transgender student] found me crying in the corridor and helped me understand who I truly am.’ (continues)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6401593/Whistleblower-teacher-makes-shocking-claim-autistic.html

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3426753-Tomorrows-Mail-on-Sunday-Front-Page

Rowantrees post ( above) strikes chords with me. In a career that brought me into contact with many young people who did not quite fit in anywhere, socially and/or physically, we did see a tendency for then ( and their parents) to seize on any apparent explanation for the difficulties.

I feel quite sure that some of this is going on. How much, and how one distinguishes the genuine/ permanent from the assumed/ temporary, I don't know.