Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

[drum123]

Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

Since puberty begins with the release of GnRH from the

I had always thought that in puberty yr body & brain, is flooded with hormones-causing all the developmental changes we know about. Ergo if that doesn't happen-a person will not mature both physically and potentially mentally....I am no expert though. But clearly this needs to be looked into in more detail by someone who could actually understand what happens to the brain in puberty.

“HERE WE ARE 33 YEARS LATER, MOTHERF*CKERS.”
Charming.

"When it comes to trans lives, you can listen to trans EXPERIENCES or cisgender OPINIONS"
And when it comes to women's lives, you can listen to women's experiences or TRA demands.

So where do we go from here?

Thanks R0.

Brief simplistic google seems to show that testosterone is present and rising in both sexes during puberty and responsible for helping to re model the frontal cortex, taking over control from the amygdala which is the instinctive and impulsive part of the brain. There definitely needs to be more research on this.

www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/hormone-affects-how-teens-brains-control-emotions

Since puberty begins with the release of GnRH from the hypothalamus - ie in the brain - and this is precisely the process that puberty blockers ‘block’ I can’t see how they can’t effect the brain.

If they didn’t effect the brain they wouldn’t work.

Are we absolutely sure pink news isn’t a spoof?

"When it comes to trans lives, you can listen to trans EXPERIENCES

That's the thing though. Stella has experience.

I've more time to type till non sleeping baby wakes on the hour and I wanted to say how brave all the people involved were. This must have been hard for you Stella; you hinted at a really awful time if it during puberty. Extremely brave of The Hayton family to allow the tv crew in. My heart goes out to them all. I have a lot of respect for Debbie and now too her family. fantastic to see Miranda talk and everyone else.

I'm utterly appalled at the protesters. They really do believe this is extreme hate speech. Fuck off IW et all comparing this with racism etc; absolutely fuck all similarity. I'm impressed C4 did this; again too little too late. Needed this during all the queer stuff in the summer.

Good point aspie.

So with rudimentary science, one can surmise the amygdala remains in control for longer while blocked, the frontal cortex remains undeveloped. Fuck knows what happens when cross sex hormones happen then.

The amygdala can be enlarged through stress, anxiety, ptsd. It can shrink through time and cbt, drugs and is why mindfulness is thought to work for depression etc but I wonder what happens if the frontal cortex doesn't get a chance to develop properly?

I haven't seen the documentary but

A) These commentators are people who transitioned as adults so they cannot directly compare their experiences to those transitioning as children.

B) Everyone has life experiences and points of view that we can share, noone should be dominating or shouting down those with other viewpoints.

C) Many Trans organizations refused to take part in the documentary.

D) When in comes to children parents are directly responsible for choices that are made regarding their children's health. They must be fully informed of all the risks and future effects of those choices for their child's future. More research is needed and as much light as possible shone on trans health outcomes, not less.

E) I am personally amazed at the frothing at the mouth, abuse and excessive swearing by many of these trans activists in their twitter comments. They undermine their credibility when they can't be part of a conversation without getting aggressive and abusive.

Are we absolutely sure pink news isn’t a spoof?

Many politicians seem not to think so.
Pink News & Benjamin Cohen seem very well connected.

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3390910-Can-we-talk-about-Pink-News-Collecting-examples-of-their-propaganda

Late to the thread and reading through but excellent point neuro

Does anyone know if any of the documentary is on YouTube? I cannot access Channel 4 as am outside the UK.

I've already said that I thought the documentary was very well worth making and watching. I didn't think it was totally even -handed, but the cries of " outrage" from the "trans world" are very much overdone. People do tend to react badly when someone says something they are not comfortable with, don't they? :-)

As you may guess, raddled old transsexual women like me know quite a few TS and trans people, and we email and talk. The circles I move in were not " outraged" or " insulted". Opinions differ, but we found much to seriously think and talk about. It was not "awful", as some have described it. A few sections were handled very well indeed, and covered things that are rarely seen and heard, and should be. Well done to all concerned.

Nothing exposes the absurdity of the trans activist argument than their own actions. This excellent documentary revealed it even in their absence.

They had a chance to make a positive impression and blew it. Being asked to participate in a programme about the possibility that the huge rise in children wanting to identify as the opposite gender might have another cause apart from their view that more visibility was encouraging those to talk who previously stayed silent.

The clues are all there about something different happening. The uneven distribution - colonies of transitioning kids in towns and schools for instance. The names chosen by transitioners hinting at influence of on line trans media stars. The switch over of gender balance to more girls identifying as boys when for decades it was the other way round until 3 or 4 years ago.

At the very least any reasonable trans person who cared about the welfare of children would want to discuss these issues and see a programme investigating them as important. But instead the discussion is all about the impact on them and how it is aimed at dissing them.....not concern over the consequences of children which anybody not obsessed with their own identity can surely see.

If transwomen are women why are they not concerned about the lives of kids and instead seem to encourage them to transition with drugs we have no way of judging long term effects after using? Whilst telling us that women can have penises because most of the new wave trans see surgery as a big boob job not removal of obvious causes of supposed alleged dysphoria.

So they do not appear - prejudging the programme on the basis that anything questioning current methodology must be transphobic hate speech. But in truth just putting their validation ahead of the welfare of children.

And then criticise excessively because they do actually appear doing what many of the activists are so expert at doing - proving trans women are women by donning scary masks, issuing angry threats and basically behaving like men.

The trans people who took part were a diverse collection of men, women and some were happy, others less so. A goof cross section 0f reality. But those involved had dysphoria, so were transsexual. They knew it and were willing to engage and talk. And consider all possibilities.

The transgender activists helpfully revealed the difference by their actions before, during and after the programme. And by the tantrums on line expressing annoyance because someone was able to show that it really is not all about them.

Well thanks for that R0wan what a depressing read. I think I now need to change my bank account when I have the time. Though is there any bank that would be a good choice?

Sorry, no idea why that posted twice.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Gender Dysphoria is not the disorder the TRA’s are suffering from.

Thanks for your perspective kay, that's good to hear.

I just read back more of the thread and saw that Stella had posted!

Thank you Stella, I am sure you are going to endure personal attacks for having a different opinion than the dominant Mermaids/Stonewall/Pink News party line. Thanks for showing lots of different people that are ignored by a dominant narrative. I would be interested in seeing more of your work in this field.

Review by Q42 a Manchester Youth Group for ages 13-18 funded by Children In Need
(concludes)
"The final lines of the documentary are possibly the most damning and speak a lot to the show’s overall ideology. Tearfully spoken our presenter concludes about “Transkids”; “I think they’re lost and they’re being led”

There’s a big difference between people who transition and people who are “lost”. We’re talking about a group of people experiencing such a high level of distress that nearly 50% attempt to take their lives by the time they’re 25. A distress felt because their identity is not represented externally and is actively undermined by their own body. Being “lost” implies not knowing where to go or what to do, but often for people transitioning the problem isn’t being lost, it’s knowing exactly where you want to go but having to jump over endless roadblocks on a constantly shifting route to get there.

A lot of people might find themselves, quite understandably, feeling overwhelmed and potentially lost during adolescence and in fact even most adults can feel lost too. People can face uncertainty around their identity, including gender identity. That’s why it’s important to embrace the wealth of options and identities that exist and send the clear message that it’s OK to explore those identities and find what’s right for you, not close off options to people. And for those that do explore and do find what’s right for them, no one has to right to tell them they’re mistaken and they’re still lost…

For one thing virtually every human on the planet represents who they are externally. We all enjoy this ability. A lot of humans go to significantly lengths to ensure their bodies are part of this identity.Matching up the body you live in with the identity you feel is not some new, luxury concept, it’s a basic, fundamental part of being human and we all do it. Why potentially deny that to someone because you view them as being “lost”?

It’s OK to feel lost and it’s OK to want to transition and those things might both be on someone’s journey or they might not.

The other, particularly frustrating, element to this is the idea of being “led”. The path to medical transition is one that needs a hell of a lot of determination to go down. It’s not one that a Pied Piper figure can trick confused children into going down. It’s one that’s very long and sometimes distressing and one involving a lot of professionals weighing in.

The question to ask is “why?” Why would anyone bother to “lead” young people down that path? Who on earth would stand to gain from doing that? People who do “lead” people astray or exploit lost and vulnerable people do so for their own gain, and the only person who potentially stands to benefit in the situations in the film is the individual themselves.

And lastly, if having happy, healthy trans people visible in communities and on YouTube constitutes being “led” then I think we’re really doing young people’s intelligence an injustice. And all those visible people, they’re not telling people what to do. They’re saying what worked and what was right for them. That’s all."

q42.org.uk/transkids/

stella

Dr Helen Webberley's (GenderGP Private Online Clinic) article for GayStar News:
'Why I declined Channel 4's invitation to talk about trans kids
Channel 4 is making a documentary called, Trans Kids: It's time to talk'
(extract)

"Which leads us to a programme which is due to air this week in which I was invited to take part.

‘Trans Kids: It’s time to talk’ is a Channel 4 documentary featuring psychotherapist, Stella O’Malley. Ms O’Malley wanted to be a boy as a child, a desire which she subsequently grew out of. This confusion about her gender has given her the strong conviction that gender variance in children is transient. This is what the programme explores.

Channel 4 is right, it is time to talk about trans kids but once again the conversation is skewed from a cis normative perspective. Rather than using a transitioned adult, who was once a gender variant child, and who is able to demonstrate that trans kids, with support, can grow into happy trans adults, Channel 4 opted to start from a position of denial.

The wrong message
They chose someone who toyed with their gender as a child (as most kids have) as an example of why we shouldn’t take the feelings of gender variant children seriously.

The message they are pushing is that these children will grow out of it. While this approach may well provide some solace to the parent who is terrified by their child’s affirmations and protestations that they do not identify with the gender they were assigned at birth, they do absolutely nothing to help those children who are gender variant.

Medical consensus supports the notion of gender variant children and yet if your child is expressing gender related distress and they are referred to a specialist NHS clinic, they can wait up to eighteen months for a first appointment.

Eighteen months is a very long time when you are suffering and when puberty is marching on undeterred by your dysphoria. It is no wonder that we see such high incidence of self harm and suicide in this group.

My doubts and unhealthy debate
I had doubts about appearing on the programme from the outset. These were somewhat allayed when I spoke to Stella O’Malley about her take on the topic and we had a healthy debate.

But one thing was eminently clear to me. Ms O’Malley for all her gender confusion, was probably never truly transgender. A medical diagnosis of gender variance is arrived at through evidence of an insistent, persistent and consistent disconnect with a person’s birth assigned gender.

I have no doubt that Ms O’Malley believes her gender feelings but she would never have been diagnosed as such according to the guidelines adopted by the experts in the field.

Had I taken part in the programme, I would have been supporting a platform for a potentially unhealthy debate about the acceptance and existence of transgender children which would have had absolutely no benefit from the perspective of educating the wider public and thereby promoting better understanding and acceptance for the trans community – and children in particular, which is why I declined."

www.gaystarnews.com/article/why-i-declined-channel-4s-invitation-to-talk-about-trans-kids/#gs.4bnJSbI

Healthcare Inspectorate Wales prosecutes online GP
Published 5 Oct 2018
HIW has today successfully prosecuted Online GP Services Ltd and Dr Helen Webberley for illegally providing online healthcare services which require registration under the Care Standards Act 2000

The prosecution follows a period in which Dr Webberley had refused to stop providing services to patients. As a result, HIW proceeded with criminal action against Online GP Services Ltd and Dr Webberley for operating a service without being registered under Section 11 of the Care Standards Act 2000.

Both Online GP Services Ltd and Dr Webberley were found guilty at Merthyr Magistrates court today. Sentencing will take place on 3 December 2018.

Chief Executive Dr Kate Chamberlain said today:

I welcome the decision of the court today. Unregistered healthcare services pose a risk to patient safety as they are not subject to the same level of scrutiny as registered services. HIW’s role is to check that patients receive good care and we are committed to taking action where standards are not met and against those who provide services illegally. I am pleased that we have done so successfully in this case."
hiw.org.uk/news/onlinegpprosecution?lang=en

This film has been posted on another thread; I'd not heard of her before but she makes some comments about the effects of some hormones used on tall girls (and if ever there were a run down of all the issues discussed on mn fwr, it's in here)

From @Angryaphra