Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

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Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

Just watched it, that was so well done. Stella was terrific as narrator, and I thought the whole thing managed to remain factual while so clearly presenting the enormous potential for permanent damage.

And the last line ‘they’re so lost and they’re being led’ made me cry.

Oh Juno!

Up until three years ago you were writing fiction for teenagers based on your experiences growing up as a gay man - you even published a non-fiction title called ‘Being a Boy’.

Maybe if you’d gotten those puberty blockers and grown up to be a boring old, heterosexual not-visibly-trans-woman, you’d never have gotten noticed for a publishing deal and you’d still be a secondary school teacher?

www.rucomingout.com/james-dawson-interview.html

www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Boy-James-Dawson/dp/1783420006/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=being+a+boy&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1379867699&sr=8-1

betty

I did not know that...how interesting

Thank you @Stellaomalley

Just caught up with this. A balanced, heartfelt documentary - so important to stay in touch with real people and their experiences when debating this issue. I too believe I would have transitioned if I was a child today. It is so worrying.

Just watched this too. She was so warm and empathetic and so clearly cares about the children. Excellent documentary.
That first poor child who was autistic- glued to their laptop - unlimited and unsupervised access to the internet (or so it appeared) is so, so dangerous. And that’s even apart from all the online trans social contagion.

We wouldn’t leave a young child in their bedroom with a bunch of random strangers, and it’s equally/more dangerous to leave them alone online.

Saw it last night - brave, balanced and brilliant, Stella, thank you.

Could not believe that protestor struggling in the doorway trying to break into a peaceful meeting and bleating about pronouns. Hilarious and 'you need a good shaking' in about equal measure.

Linda Bellos in court for talking about self defence.

The TRAs in this film screaming, raging, threatening, trespassing. Should have been arrested.

And as for Juno. What a massive fucking hypocrite. "Being a boy who's actually a girl all along"

Just when I thought they couldn't shock me any more.

The section in the recording when some of those attending the Leeds meeting of TRAs talk about how they have disrupted women's groups from meeting and what they are intending to do next is even more revealing and chilling.
It was about 1:20 in.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3431789-MNHQ-deleting-anything-with-recording-of-T-RF-Wars-meeting-in-Leeds

lassupthebrew "The names chosen by transitioners hinting at influence of on line trans media stars. The switch over of gender balance to more girls identifying as boys when for decades it was the other way round until 3 or 4 years ago."

Can you day more about this here or pm me, please?

"At the very least any reasonable trans person who cared about the welfare of children would want to discuss these issues and see a programme investigating them as important. But instead the discussion is all about the impact on them and how it is aimed at dissing them.....not concern over the consequences of children which anybody not obsessed with their own identity can surely see."

This is so true.

"At the very least any reasonable trans person who cared about the welfare of children would want to discuss these issues and see a programme investigating them as important. But instead the discussion is all about the impact on them and how it is aimed at dissing them.....not concern over the consequences of children which anybody not obsessed with their own identity can surely see."

this ^^

They chose someone who toyed with their gender as a child (as most kids have) as an example of why we shouldn’t take the feelings of gender variant children seriously.

And then:

Eighteen months is a very long time when you are suffering and when puberty is marching on undeterred by your dysphoria.

Surely, 18 months is not a long time when it comes to judging, whether somebody toys with their gender or not?

Sure, once puberty marches, there is a time factor. However, before puberty there was childhood, which would have provided ample time for getting an appointment. Or are we talking about some kind of rapid onset gender dysphoria here, in which case I wonder about the consistency of it all...

This is all very self-contradictory and illogical.

(I was referring to Webberley's Pink News Article, cited above).

Article in Spiked in response to the programme:
www.spiked-online.com/2018/11/22/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-trans-kid/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

My god that’s good - the Spiked thing. That’s the toughest I’ve seen.

Spiked needs to decouple it’s comments section from Facebook.

Some of us would love to comment - as, indeed, we used to - but it’s more than our jobs are worth now.

Funny how the pink news article leaves out Cale, who detransitioned, from the list of interviewees

Surprised to see something like that in Spiked which I think is a first for them.

Hadn't read Spiked before, is it usually woke?

Eighteen months is a very long time when you are suffering and when puberty is marching on undeterred by your dysphoria.

Surely, 18 months is not a long time when it comes to judging, whether somebody toys with their gender or not?

THere has been a constant and considerable push by some Mermaids parents, some TRAs and Dr Webberley to focus on the wait times of GIDS.

Its been going on for months.

It seems the hope is that it would open up the possibility of referral to private healthcare either for full treatment or the supervision of GPs to provide 'bridging prescriptions'

THere is though also a significant difference in approach by clinicians such as Dr Webberley with that of Tavistock GIDS.

R0wantrees

"Review by Q42 a Manchester Youth Group for ages 13-18 funded by Children In Need
(concludes)"

"...transitioning the problem isn’t being lost, it’s knowing exactly where you want to go but having to jump over endless roadblocks on a constantly shifting route to get there." This seems to miss the point that 'knowing' is actually quite subjective. What we know for sure at 13 might change.

"People can face uncertainty around their identity, including gender identity." But the reality is that gender identity isn't some inatr feeling we all have internally it's a concept created within culture. We have a biological sex and if we feel at odds with that we need counselling before making massive changes that could leave us sterile. Puberty blockers stop the brain developing as well as the body. How can that assist a child in making wise decisions?

"That’s why it’s important to embrace the wealth of options and identities that exist" but TRAs do not seem willing to embrace the belief one doesn't need to buy into 'gender' at all! Unless thatvis packaged as an identity. Like calling atheism a religion!

"And for those that do explore and do find what’s right for them, no one has to right to tell them they’re mistaken and they’re still lost…" except of course the parents who love them a lot more than their new found You tube star does, and actually care what happens to them!

Because we are talking about children not adults!

"For one thing virtually every human on the planet represents who they are externally." To some extent yes but I am not just a woman, I am a complex person and taking drugs to alter my body eoukf not affect 'who I was' it might endanger who I am!

"The other, particularly frustrating, element to this is the idea of being “led”. The path to medical transition is one that needs a hell of a lot of determination to go down. It’s not one that a Pied Piper figure can trick confused children into going down. It’s one that’s very long and sometimes distressing and one involving a lot of professionals weighing in."

I think, perhaps unknowingly, You tube presenters telling their story of medication and surgery to vulnerable teens are exactly like Pied Pipers! How ironic to mention it! But I do not think the realise they are doing it!

"The question to ask is “why?” Why would anyone bother to “lead” young people down that path? Who on earth would stand to gain from doing that? People who do “lead” people astray or exploit lost and vulnerable people do so for their own gain, and the only person who potentially stands to benefit in the situations in the film is the individual themselves."

Not so, the presenters get affirmation for their 'choices' even if they feel they have no choice. Yet, they are validated, etc.

I don't think they are genuinely trying to lead others astray but by presenting their 'only option' I do think they are leading others.

R0wantrees

"Dr Helen Webberley's (GenderGP Private Online Clinic) article for GayStar News:
'Why I declined Channel 4's invitation to talk about trans kids
Channel 4 is making a documentary called, Trans Kids: It's time to talk'
(extract)"

"Ms O’Malley wanted to be a boy as a child, a desire which she subsequently grew out of. This confusion about her gender has given her the strong conviction that gender variance in children is transient. This is what the programme explores"

I don't Stella ever said it was transient for all, she said it was transient for her. What right has this doctor to diagnose Stella via internet and make her own pronouncements!

Many of us who are gender critical would still argue on some circumstances it is right for adults yo transition. The programme was about children.

adulthumanandtired

"That first poor child who was autistic- glued to their laptop - unlimited and unsupervised access to the internet (or so it appeared) is so, so dangerous. And that’s even apart from all the online trans social contagion."

I completely agree with you about social contagion.

However, it is virtually impossible to supervise a teenager's use of the internet.

If you know how to do it without utterly alienating your child please do tell me. Thus is a genuine request.

I really wish I had not given my child a phone that connects to the internet when they went to secondary school. But I, like the vast majority of parents, did.

re Dr Webberley; Some adult Transsexual people have been unhappy for some while about young and/ or "undiagnosed officially" people using Dr Webberley's services. Only because being cynical old people we like to see checks and balances. How skilled their clinical / psychiatric assessment cannot be clear. We prefer the standard route through the NHS, although even there there can be doubts about decision making.

Most people who use the Webberley service are mature adults, and are willing to "take their own chances" after a lifetime of increasing misery with GD and years of further waiting for the NHS. They have found the service to be professional and principled . In fact, as someone who has been through the NHS system many years ago, but who has had long term medical issues with ( some) post op hormones, I have considered using her service myself. Most of her clients seem to be very happy indeed with the clinic. Well, they would be, maybe, but it is so.

There have been a number of services such as hers over the years, and all have had difficulties with " the NHS Gender Services Establishment". Yet over time the "G.S.E. Establishment"has often been seen to have moved closer to what those private services have been doing. It is all a tad unclear, tbh. The issue with a private clinic seems to be one of " who oversees and checks?". That clinic has been accused of overstepping some marks, not making actual (proven) clinical mistakes. It is all about procedures and clinical oversight.

Whatever the Webberleys have been doing, their good faith and overall professionalism need not be doubted.

I think Dr Webberley’s professional body would disagree with you about her professionalism given her criminal record.