New Zealand: Bill on transgender birth certificates creates big issues

[TimeLady]

Sounds familiar....

www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/108740984/Bill-on-transgender-birth-certificates-creates-big-issues

No comments at all on that article yet

With a photo of a big person in a pink frilly scarf. And we're all supposed to be convinced.

With a photo of a big person in a pink frilly scarf

That picture and caption are a perfect microcosm of the situation

I commented...this is outrageous

Pretty much every private gym I've been in (not many, I'll grant you) has communal open plan changing rooms. I note that Mx Pink Frilly Scarf has not yet had surgery. So basically, a fellow gym user could find herself in the situation of emerging from the shower wrapped only in a towel to find Mx Pink Frilly Scarf, naked, and the woman in the towel is meant to be cool with this situation. I can't help but feel that I'm firmly on the side of the Wellington women-only gym. Surely they must know what their clientele would and would not be comfortable with.

As a New Zealander, I'm very proud to live in such a progressive nation.

I find it incredibly sad that purported feminists think that being big, or wearing frilly pink scarves make someone any less of a woman. But to take your point about being convinced, or otherwise, by the photograph, I thought the article was balanced, informative, and didn't attempt to convince the reader of anything. Was I missing something?

Coincidentally, I was glad to see comments disabled. The Stuff comments section can be a bit of a cesspool, and they often leave them enabled on articles with the potential for controversy. Presumably to act as click-bait.

As a New Zealander I am very embarrassed.

By what exactly? Balanced reporting of thorny issues?

I find it incredibly sad that purported feminists think that being big, or wearing frilly pink scarves make someone any less of a woman.

I think you’ll find it’s actually the penis that makes someone not a woman 😂

that being big, or wearing frilly pink scarves make someone any less of a woman

I think having a penis makes someone less of a woman tbh.

So you're saying that women (and presumably also men) are defined by their reproductive organs. That's quite a reductive definition isn't it? Rather a patriarchal one at that.

I don't know how you see yourself, but personally I see myself as way more than the sum of my reproductive parts.

I think julj has tried to reply but on the wrong thread 😂

As a New Zealander who has received threats of doxxing and been doxxed, has been harassed, has been mocked for being a CSA victim and prostituted as a minor, all by transitioned male people (some of them New Zealanders also,) simply for saying I don't think people can change sex and that neogenitals aren't realistic... I am deeply concerned at the way NZ is putting progressive regressive gender ideology ahead of female safety and security.

Especially considering many swimming pool and beach changing facilities are simply open rooms with benches around the walls, with no privacy whatsoever.

Aha, managed to c&p that post into the right place! Good work. Content of your post, not so much.

What else binds us all together AS women but biology? Is it our feminine essence?

@julj70 you seem confused.

A human is of course more than the sum of their parts, as an individual, and a person. But a woman can only be an adult female human. That's not a reductive definition unless you think gender is all there is to a person and nothing else. (Which would be reductive also.) Saying a woman is an adult human of the female sex is categorisation by sex, not reduction. Because a woman is also a person.

After all, an autistic person/person with autism can only be autistic if they have autism. Right? Is that reductive? Does it reduce an autistic person/person with autism down to their autism, to have a necessary condition they must fill (having autism) to be categorised as autistic/a person with autism?

Women don’t have cocks. Only deranged people think otherwise.

I'll claim a lack of caffeine (and 50 open browser tabs) for the mis-post. :)

I really feel from you Scrumplestiltskin, and wouldn't wish your experience on anyone. I find it horrifying that any human being, trans or otherwise, would attack you with that. It shows a real lack of empathy, basic humanity even, on the part of those people.

I don't think that human rights are a zero-sum game though - the addition of rights to some humans needn't be to the detriment of others.

juls70

Ask yourself this : what do you have in common with every other woman /girl (birth sex) on the planet?

That's quite a reductive definition isn't it?

All definitions are reductive, you nelly. How can you have a definition if you do not reduce it down to it's essential characteristics?

Define
Verb
To explain or identify the nature or essential qualities of.

The word Female specifically refers to reproductive capacity. A definition of the word female that no longer references reproductive capacity is an erasure of the word itself.

There are lots of things that make me, me...

But the only things I can think of that make me an adult human female are probably my genitalia and chromosomes?

I'm no less female than a woman who perhaps dresses more feminine than myself

No less female than a woman who perhaps has more children than me

No less female than perhaps a woman who (insert things that women stereotypically do)

Materialist - indeed, any animal is obviously more than the sounds it makes.

But if you say that only dogs bark, only cats meow and that things that bark or meow must automatically be part of one of those sets, then yes your logic is reductive. And that feels an awful lot like your definition of woman.

So what's your definition of women then - if not adult human female? Please enlighten us.